P311r Unapproved Meeting Minutes BSI IST/5/-/15 (Posix) Panel Date: 23-February-1996 Location: X/Open Company Ltd Apex Plaza Forbury Road Reading RG1 1AX Berks. Those Present: David Cannon (Chairman) University of Exeter Derek Jones Knowledge Software Neil Keskar CSC Computer Sciences David Brownbridge Praxis Critical Systems Kevlin Henney QA Nick Stoughton Pert Systems Ltd Papers before the meeting: P305 IST/5/-/15 Agenda, 23-Feb-1996 P306 IST/5/-/15 Minutes, 24-Nov-1995 P307 Guide to Conformance Testing Methodology - Feedback JL P308 IST/5/-/15 (Posix) Panel Report to IST/5 DC P309 Applications Conformance Requirements RS Authors: DC David Cannon JL Jon Leigh RS Rob Smith 0. Apologies Don Folland CCTA Martin Kirk X/Open Jon Leigh NCC Alan Lenton 1. Adoption of Agenda: P305 The agenda was adopted as presented, with no amendments. 2. Applications Conformance Issues P309 . Presentation/Discussion (Chris French, X/Open) Chris French stood in at short notice for Paul Tanner, and gave an excellent presentation of the X/Open applications conformance strategy, which the company is currently implementing. Overheads from the presentation are attached to (the paper copy of) these minutes; the following notes are key points from the presentation. X/Open are taking the "Open Software Register" approach, consciously distinct from the "application branding" technique which was their original concept. The process will involve testing as an integral part of registering an application. The testing tool will be based on ANDF technology, as pioneered at the DRA. X/Open are aiming to acquire the appropriate rights to DRA's ANDF API emulation tool, tspec. The tool will provide static validation of API usage. Field testing of the registration process is due to start in mid-March, and go operational by the end of May 1996. There is another tool, OSPC, marketed by Knowledge Software, which also performs applications portability checking. IST/5/-/15 thanked Chris for his time and patience for both the presentation and for fielding the comments and questions raised by panel members. Those panel members attending felt that X/Open's Presentation at this meeting gave a useful focus on issues outside the normal processing of ISO and BSI business; it was unanimously approved that: Action: Panel members to consider other possible useful and/or interesting presentations which would form part of a future Panel meeting and inform the Convener ASAP by any available means. [It was suggested that Nick Peeling (DRA) and Derek Jones (Knowledge Software) may be interested in giving a presentation to the Panel on Applications Conformance. MKS are also rumoured to be working in this area and may be prepared to give a presentation.] Action: Members to consider API portability problems and those things that conformance checking should cover and report to the Convener by any available means for discussion at the next Panel meeting . (Drinks are on DJ for the best ideas!). 3. Approval of Minutes: P306 The minutes of the Panel meeting, 24-November, were approved with the following corrections: To Section 7: Liaison with other Standards Committees and Panels: ... ". IST/5/-/14 Liaison: (DJ) "DJ: Draft 3 of the C annex document is available, with Multibyte support and interpretations." ...should read... "DJ: Draft 3 of the C 9x standard-under-revision is available, with Multibyte support and interpretations." ". SC22/WG21: ... "Draft available from FTP sites: ftp://math.warwick.ac.uk/... (Root around!)" ...should read... "Draft available from FTP sites: "ftp://ftp.maths.warwick.ac.uk/ (Root around!)" Derek Jones noted that the Knowledge Software 'web pages, at: http://www.knosof.co.uk now also pointed to the WG15 pages held at Exeter: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~DCannon/WG15/WG15_sd-1.html 4. Matters Arising, including Action items: 24-Nov: Convener to place the notes of the WG15, Orlando meeting on the IST/5/-/15 'web page: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~DCannon/IST-5-15home.html (Done: 27-Nov-95) 24-Nov: Convener to recommend that the proposed NP characterised in P300 be dropped, and that WG15 should keep close watch on the EWOS work to ensure that it does not become overly complex. WG15 should ask for a draft of EWOS/EG-CT/95/20 Issue 4.0 for a sanity check. WG15 should pass a copy of the 2003R (Revised) standard to EWOS for their information, and request EWOS to comment on how their work accommodates it. Action: The recommendation to drop the NP proposed in P300 will be passed as part of the UK report to WG15 at its May meeting. 24-Nov: DJ to send the Australian Open Systems URL to the Convener, for forwarding to the WG15 'webmaster. DJ said that he had done this. Action: Convener to check his archive of IST/5-/15 email messages and liaise with DJ if the Australian Open Systems URL cannot be found there... (Done: 23-Feb-96) [Post-meeting note: DJ sent the URL at the end of November - thanks and apologies to DJ] 24-Nov: DF to trace a copy of the Framework for User Requirements document (if possible) and pass it to the Convener for forwarding to WG15. No document has yet appeared. Action: Convener to check with DF as to whether the Framework for User Requirements document is likely to be available for the next meeting of WG15. 24-Nov: 9510-33 Member Bodies - identify appropriate users (of profiles) and seek feedback from them in the R&C process on how the profiles meet (or do not meet) their needs. (from RGCPA issue #2) [The Panel members at the November meeting had no experience of the issues behind this action item]. Those members present at the February meeting were unable to improve on this position. Action: Convener to email the group seeking input on the WG15 action item 9510-33 (above) and report to WG15 accordingly. 24-Nov: Convener to contact Paul Tanner, X/Open, re any information on the rumoured Application Testing work/survey currently being undertaken. Invite him to speak to the next IST/5/-/15 meeting. (Done: 18-Jan-96) 24-Nov: Re the diminishing attendance of IST/5/-/15 meetings, Convener to contact the X/Open 'webmaster and the WG15 Convener to check if a reference to the WG15 'web pages would be appropriate from the X/Open pages. (X/Open is already referenced from the WG15 pages). (Done: 4-Dec-95) 24-Nov: Members to consider whether a reduction in the frequency of IST/5/-/15 meetings would increase the likelihood of their attending more meetings, and to respond to the Convener by all appropriate means. Ist/5/-/15's meeting date of the 17-May was discussed. It was decided to not to meet then, given that the date fell immediately before the WG15 meeting and the fact that IST/5/-/15 would have met three times between ISO WG15's meetings. Action: All Panel members to note that the IST/5/-/15 meeting scheduled for May will NOT now take place. The next IST/5/-/15 meeting date is indicated at the end of these minutes. 5. Progress of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG15: . Consideration of ISO ballots: One ISO CD ballot on POSIX System Administration was due over the last quarter. The Panel recommended a YES vote on the basis that it has active membership of the IEEE group producing the document. . Status Report of SC22/WG15: . Actions: . Resolutions: There has been no WG15 activity since the last IST/5/-/15 meeting. 6. Progress of IEEE PASC Posix WGs . Consideration of IEEE ballots: . Status Report of IEEE PASC: NS reported that the last IEEE meeting was in Albuquerque. The fee to join a ballot group are now down to $30 - this represents just the ISO 'tax'. Formal ballot windows for IEEE drafts have been abandoned - documents now go to ballot as they become ready. Only two documents have entered this phase since the rule change, indicating that no work had been unduly restrained to date. A Study Group has been established to consider producing a standard on 'administrative roles'. PAR expected soon. If approved this will be progressed under the System Admin group. Another SG is due to report in April on the uniform device driver interface proposal. IEEE attendance is (still) a serious issue, down below 100 now. Some groups have very small numbers of attendees - discussion is taking place as to whether these are viable, or representative of what is really happening in vendor's systems. Petr Janecek (X/Open) is of the school of thought that Posix should pack its bags, job largely done. P1003.1 is coming up for revision/reapproval. Revision PAR may be presented at the May meeting, but the group's body count is down to four - more are needed for a viable revision group. One proposal is to properly merge the .1a, .1b, etc amendments. Action: NS asked that IST/5/-/15 members pass any suggestions for revisions to the IEEE 1003.1 (aka 9945-1:1990) standard through him for forwarding to the IEEE group. DJ commented that the language independent work, currently in suspended animation, was extremely useful and should be revived. It was noted that Denmark has offered to look at progressing the LI drafts. There is debate within the IEEE as to whether this is what Denmark actually plans to do. The October meeting venue for the IEEE groups, tentatively scheduled for 'Europe', is not yet fixed. 7. Rapporteur Groups: . Report of Internationalisation RG (GL) The latest draft of the RIN Issues List (available from IST/5/-/15's 'web pages) is under construction. This notes the completion of a number of work items which have occupied RIN over several meeting cycles. RIN will meet partly in plenary with WG15 in May - to debate the Issues List - and partly as a sub-group. If WG15 determines that RIN's work is complete it may resolve to terminate RIN and to process any further Internationalisation work itself. 8. Liaison with other Standards Committees and Panels: . IST/5 Report: (DC) P308 P308, the IST/5/-/15 report to the last meeting of IST/5, was noted. . IST/5/-/14 Liaison: (DJ) DJ: Draft 5 of the C 9x document is now available. C may be the first language to support international character sets in identifiers (via tri-graphs). The US proposal for the support of 'classes' in a future revision of the C standard is gaining support. Discussion continues on electronic distribution. 9. Any Other Business Schedule of future POSIX-related meetings, 1996: 20-24 May ISO JTC-1/SC22/WG15 Copenhagen, Denmark 6 September IST/5/-/15 NFA 28-31 October ISO JTC-1/SC22/WG15 Munich, Germany 29 November IST/5/-/15 NFA The meeting closed at 12:36