Unapproved Meeting Minutes BSI IST/5/-/15 (Posix) Panel Date: 25-February-1994 Location: Hampden House, London Those Present: Dave Cannon (Chairman) University of Exeter Rob Smith NHS Martin Kirk X/Open Colin O'Driscoll NCC Derek Jones Knowledge Software Neil Keskar (Secretary) CSC Computer Sciences Papers before the meeting: P235 IST/5/-/15 Agenda, 25-Feb-1994 P236 IST/5/-/15 Minutes, 19-Nov-1993 P237 Potential UK/English Posix Locale DC P238 JTC1 N2814: NP: Guidelines for prepn of LIS Specs. IST/-/10 P239 Verifying Claims of Open Systems Conformance DJ P240 PASC Interpretations Status Report AJ P241 FSS-UTF: File System Safe Transformation Format X/Open P242 Character-less Programming KH/RB P243 Comparing OSI and Posix Testing Methodologies DR F1 ISO/IEC DIS 10967-1: LIA-1 Int and FP Arithmetic WG11 Authors: DC David Cannon DJ Derek Jones DR Dave Rayner AJ Andrew Josey KH Keith Hopper RB R Barbour WG11 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG11 (Bindings) P235 0. Apologies Apologies were received from: Ross Allen BSI QA David Brownbridge Praxis Dan Chacon BSI QA Hugh Fisher NHS 1. Adoption of Agenda: P235 Adopted as circulated 2. Approval of Minutes: P236 Approved without comments 3. Matters Arising, including Action items: P239 ...from minutes.m11: (001 93-11-19 19:17) 4Q93: Chair to ask IST/5 about the procedure used in determining the UK position on JTC1/N2612. (Done: 7-Dec) [The SC21 Conformance Testing Methodology NP was raised at the September meeting of IST/5, briefly. It was passed over fairly rapidly and the minutes record only that the IST/5 Chair was to formulate an appropriate response, based on the discussion. I had forgotten this by the time of the September IST/5/-/15 meeting, at which members noted the problems with the proposal. Our window of opportunity, to advise the IST/5 Chair of our worries, was lost then, and the IST/5 Chair forgot that he was actioned to respond on behalf of IST/5. I apologise for my error, and Andrew Walker, IST/5 Chair, apologises for his omission...] A paper on Testing Methodology (P243) provided by Dave Rayner was discussed. This proposed a joint meeting, and suggested a number of available dates. Action: Colin O'Driscoll to arrange a meeting with Dave Rayner (IST/21) re P243 to discuss OSI and Posix Testing Methodologies. Dave Cannon will also attend meeting. (Done: 25-Feb) 4Q93: Chair to check progress with Andrew Walker. (Done: 20-Nov) 4Q93: Chair to send copies of the relevant SC22 resolutions on ISO 10646 to CO'D for preparation of comment to WG15. (Done: 20-Nov) Action: Colin O'Driscoll to submit comments on ISO 10646 to WG15 at its May 94 meeting. 4Q93: MK to notify chair by January 30 if applicable. [Re: whether MBs can offer a secretary to WG15, Tokyo] Martin Kirk confirmed actioned timed out. 4Q93: PO to introduce into the P1003.0 ballot process that MUMPS is now a standard and is now called M. Action continues. 4Q93: Chair to forward N01 and the appropriate part of the introduction of P1003.20 to IST/5/-/9 for their comments on whether the problems identified are surmountable. (Done: 7-Dec) [Subsequent email forwarded by Brian Meek indicates that Ted Baker has had positive response from P1003.4 group on the lack of responsiveness to his ballot comments - he no longer has a problem. Ada group (IST/5/-/9) has a copy of P1003.20; forwarding N01 (Ted Baker's comments) no longer appropriate] 4Q93: Chair to copy the IEEE report in preparation for the JNT to IST/5/-/15. (Done: 28-Jan) 4Q93: DanC to pass the automated testing presentations to HF. Action completed. 4Q93: Chair to email the Extended characterset in small languages proposal (from Keld) to Martin Kirk, CO'D and DanC for forwarding to experts. (Done: 20-Nov) Action completed. Feed-back from "experts" awaited. 4Q93: Chair to arrange meeting rooms with Lyn Jenkins for meeting dates, 1994 (Done: 17-Jan) Action completed. 4. Progress of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG15: . Consideration of ISO ballots: P238 . Actions: Panel is pleased that WG11 is using the Posix LIS as a starting point for its proposed NP and would agree with a recommendation for a UK 'Yes' vote on the NP ballot. (P238 refers). Action: Chairman to indicate to IST/5 that the Panel does not believe FP Arithmetic Standard will adversely impact Posix. This does not imply that the Panel endorses the text (DIS 10967-1 refers). (Done: 7-Mar) Action: Convenor to recommend a 'yes' on DIS 13210 (Test Methods for measuring Conformance to Posix), with the comment that the SQL Standard reference should be "........:1992". (DJ to confirm number). (Done: 7-Mar) . Status Report of SC22/WG15, P241, P242 . Actions: . Resolutions: Panel noted both documents. No comment on P241. Little purpose served by P242. 5. Progress of IEEE PASC Posix WGs . Consideration of IEEE ballots: . Status Report of IEEE PASC, Irvine, January 1994: P240 Chairman advised Panel of a number of invitations to join ballot groups received from the IEEE. 6. Rapporteur Groups: . Report of Security RG ( ) Action: Chairman to check status of David Ferbrache as the prospective Security Rapporteur. (Done: 3-Mar-94) . Report of Verification RG (CO'D) Nothing new to report which hasn't been discussed elsewhere on the agenda. . Report of Internationalisation RG (GL) Action: Chairman to check whether Greger Leijonhufvud is able to continue as the Internationalisation Rapporteur. (Done: 3-Mar-94) . Report of Profile Coordination RG (PO) Peter Owens did not attend the meeting. No report. 7. Liaison with other Standards Committees and Panels: . IST/5 Report: (DC) P237 Dave Cannon presented his paper on "UK English Locale" (P237), which IST/5 had requested be prepared. Action: Panel members are requested to offer technical comments on P237 (Possible UK-English Posix Locale) in order to ensure its accuracy. Action: Chairman to check with IST/5 whether "UK-English Posix Locale" is to be a UK Work Item. (Done: 7-Mar) There was a discussion on the possible reduction of AITS travel funding, which is provided to assist UK experts to attend ISO SC and WG meetings. Action: Chairman to advise IST/5 that there should be a "ranking" of eligible panels so that those considered to be doing more commercially important work have have greater access to travel funds than others. (Done: 7-Mar) The delegation for the May ISO/WG15 meeting in Tokyo was agreed to include: David Cannon and Martin Kirk . IST/-/2 Liaison: (AW) A number of EWOS documents received by the Chairman. No action required. . IST/5/-/14 Liaison: (DJ) Derek Jones gave a brief report. The last meeting was in Hawaii. "C" Going for PDAM for which the answer is going to be "No" unless the Danish content is removed. "C" is coming up for revision. UK believe that the language should remain small. and should not go the C++ direction. This will be discussed at the Tokyo meeting. . SGFS Liaison: (AW) Anrew Walker did not attend the meeting. No report. 8. Application Conformance Testing: why and how? (DJ, HF) (P239) Rob Smith (NHS) introduced the topic of Conformance Testing. Suppliers would not bother unless there were a requirement for Conformance Testing. There would be no point to having a Posix standard if there were no conformance to it by Applications. The NHS already has a requirement for Operating System conformance, but feels it would be unreasonable to ask for Applications conformance as well - there are very few test tools for example. (Knowledege Sofware have one). Suppliers did not particularly like the Posix API as it was not considered a sufficiently rich environment for marketable applications. Some organisations such as British Gas required conformance with XPG4 with extensions. NHS thought that formal definition techniques would help but there was little agreement in the ensuing discussion that this would help. Funding for the necessary test suites was also seen to be a problem. Would NIST have any interest in establishing a FIPS for Application Conformance to Posix? Action: Rob Smith to produce a short paper (~1 page) on "IT Spend and the Requirement for Applications Conformance Testing" for submission to the Panel. The intention would be to use this as a lever with the suppliers and testing authorities. 9. Any Other Business The position of convenor should be reviewed in May; this is the normal three-year review. Members should consider whether they're happy for Dave Cannon to continue, or if not should look to nominating one (or more!) alternatives. Meeting change? 26 August IST/5/-/15 BSI, London - try to move this, the chair is on holiday. Action: Consider alternative dates for the August meeting at the next IST/5/-/15 meeting. The next meeting of IST/5/-/15 will be on: 27 May BSI Hampden House, London