SC22/WG15 N577

ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22 WG15 Minutes
Twente, The Netherlands
May 8-10

1. Opening of meeting

 2PM  Mon 5/8
 Jon Spencer "volunteered" to serve as Secretary for the meeting.

URLs: X/OPEN   -
           WG15    -

1.1 Welcome from Host

1.2 Introductions & Roll call of Technical Experts

 Herman Weegenaar Netherlands; Chair
 Willem Wakker  Netherlands; HoD
 Ron Elliot  Germany; HoD
 Don Folland  UK
 Martin Kirk  UK
 David Cannon  UK; HoD
 Jon Spencer  US; Secretary
 Keld Simonsen  Denmark
 John Hill  US; HoD
 Jay Ashford  US
 Jerry Powell  US
 Patrick Dempster Canada;HoD
 David Blackwood  Canada
 Jean-Michell Cornu France; HoD
 Jim Isaak  Convener
 Nobuo Saito  Japan; HoD
 Lowell Johnson  US; acting Vice Chair (for Barry Needham)
 Andy Bihain  US [Arrived Tuesday]

1.2.1 Verify and approve HoD/PASC distribution list

1.2.2 Review & Approve WG15 mailing List   [SD-6]

1.3 Selection of Drafting Committee

 Jay Ashford
 Ron Elliot
 Keld Simonsen
 Dave Cannon

1.4 Adoption of agenda     [N533r2]

 N533r3 - Netherlands asked for explanation of change in the meeting times of rapporteur groups to meet after WG15
 Explanation was that:
  1. One way to assist rapporteur groups to respond in a timely fashion
  2. Take action faster
  3. Allow national bodies to respond to output of rapporteur group prior to next meeting
 Agenda approved at 5PM

1.5 Approval of minutes     [N532]

 Minutes were approved as presented.

1.6 Action Items & National Reports

  Ca  [N554]
  Dk  [N558]
  Fr  [N539]
  D  No report
  Jp  No report
  Nl  [N556]
  NZ  No report
  UK  [N557]
  US  [N555]
  Convener [N536]

Action items from 94 Oct meeting
9410-01 United States: Investigate making electronic copies of draft documents available to WG15 (open action items 9305-33, 9310-15, 9405-06)    (Closed)

9410-02 UK: To provide a report on the progress of its National profile to SC22/WG15 by the May 1995 meeting. (Closed)

9410-03 Project Editor: Notify the development body of collation weight requirements (resolution 93-230, open action item 9305-60, 9310-23, 9405-12)

(Closed: has become 9505-02)
Canada - questions for sorting - CEN says need 6 levels of sorting for Greek.

9410-04 United States: Review the scope of WG15 POSIX security related items and position this work relative to the proposed program of work and terms of reference of SC21, SC18 and their working groups. United States member body will identify any areas of overlap and report their findings back to WG15 (open action item Paris-01, 9310-25, 9405-14)  (Closed)

WG15 US TAG N524 (Attachment #3 to US report WG15 N555)

9410-05 RIN: Develop a draft WG15 position on ISO 10646 impact on POSIX standards for distribution to Member bodies by Feb. 1 1995 (open action item 9310-46, 9405-22)

(Open - new due date 95jul01)
Canada has offered to write this report if RIN doesn't do it by Jul 1.

9410-06 Member bodies: Comment to WG15 RIN draft position on ISO 10646 impact on POSIX standards (open action item 9310-47, 9405-23)

(Closed - reopen when 9410-05 is done)

9410-07 Project Editor: Request ITTF to assign part number 0 to IEEE 1372 LIS for JTC1 numbering (open action item 9310-64, 9405-28)     (Open)

9410-08 Patric Dempster: Reorganize SD-3 to split open and resolved issues (open action item 9405- 31). (Closed)

9410-09 Project Editor: Provides a pictorial view of how standards are managed and combined for WG15 mailing prior to the May 1995 meeting (open action item 9405-34). (Open)

9510-10 Project Editor: Request IEEE to make 9945-2 available to Japan in an electronic troff format to aid in their translation effort (open action item 9405-39).  (Closed)

9410-11 Project Editor: Provide a report to the WG15 Email distribution list on results of the ad hoc meeting on synchronization by 1 March 1995 (open action item 9405-51).

(Open - date moved to 95 Sep 1)
Date moved due to problems with sync email list.

9410-12 Denmark: Supply National profile to WG15 RIN and WG20  (Open)

9410-13 Japan: Identify participants in 9945-1 and 9945-2 interpretation process to Convener  (Closed)

No participants from Japan

9410-14 Convener : Issue Call for Volunteers for SGFS Liaison see N536.     (Closed)

Willem Wakker volunteered.

9410-15 Convener : Issue “Call for Volunteers” for WG15 Liaison to SC22/WG22 (PCTE) for consideration at the next WG15 meeting.       (Closed)

Keld Simonsen volunteered.

9410-16 Member bodies: Notify Project Editor of the names of the participants for the Synchronization AdHoc by December 31, 1994.       (Closed)

9410-17 United States: To report to the next WG15 meeting as to the status as defined in SD-11 for LIS, TFA, PII and Directory Services, and to deliver a draft resolution for WG15 consideration with respect to reporting to SC22 on WG15 plans for bringing documents forward.   (Closed)

LIS: A document existsin IEEE. No current progress.
DS: Fasttracked elsewhere in ISO.
TFA: Work in progress
PII: Work in progress

9410-18 Convener : Produce updated Project Management Summary for all parts of project 9945-2 by Feb. 1995 and distribute to National bodies for review prior to next WG15 meeting.       (Closed)

N540 addresses this issue.  Convener would like feedback.

9410-19 Member bodies: Provide input on identification of existing conformance testing activities to the WG15 RGCT Rapporteur (See N526, section 5.1)  (Closed)

No activities in Denmark.  UK and US have provided a response.

9410-20 United States: Provide information on status of 1326, 1326.1, 1326.2, 1328, 1328.1, and 1328.2 test method standards with respect to ISO standardization activities. (Closed)

Have an editor for the documents.

9410-21 Keld Simonsen: Set up an Email list ( for people interested in working on the revised synchronization plan.   (Closed)

9410-22 Member bodies: Submit names to be included in the synchronization Email list to Keld Simonsen by 18 Nov. 1994.       (Closed)

9410-23 Convener: Distribute electronically N352r2 to the synchronization plan distribution list by 25 Nov. 1994.       (Closed)

9410-24 United States: Distribute to WG15 Email list the details on its proposal on CHARIDS, ref. action item 9405-55 and US reponse (SC22/WG15 N515).   (Closed)

The US thinks CHARIDS is unnecessary.

9410-25 Convener: Notify SC22 Secretariat that Jerry Powell is the SC22/WG15 liaison to SWG-CA.  (Closed)

See N536

9410-26 United States: Forward the following documents to the convener for SC22/WG15 Review and Comment: (Open)

P1003.2b Shell and Utilities - Extensions: Draft 10       (Done)
  Has been sent
P1003.1i Technical Corrections to Real Time System API Extensions: Draft 2    (Almost done)
  On its way
P2003R Test Methods for Measuring Conformance to POSIX Standards (revision of IEEE Std. 1003.3:1991): Draft 5 (Almost done)
  On its way

9410-27 Member bodies: Review documents listed in 9410-26       (Open)

Discussed that Denmark has provided input on 1003.2b and Japan is nearly ready to provide this.
Denmark: One thing has not been provided text for substitute facility, from an old draft of .2. Denmark believes that US has text in its archives.

9410-28 Convener: Contact SC22/WG15 liaison to SC22/WG13 to communicate concerns about references to SC22/WG15 documents in Modula 2 binding.    (Closed)

Closed via email on 95jan09.

9410-29 United State: Refer N509 (Modula 2 binding queries) to PASC and report back at next SC22/WG15 meeting. (Closed)

Examine attachment #2, N555.  US suggests that this be forwarded to WG13 liaison to take action.

9410-30 Member bodies: Review SC22/WG15 N511 and provide any feedback to the SC22/WG15 Email distribution list.       (Closed)

Denmark has comment to 9410-30 in Denmark Action Item report.  See NIST web page for information on accredited O/S, not applications. No programs in place for conformance testing of applications.

Discussion deferred to agenda item 6.2.

9410-31 Convener: To pursue appropriate liaison with EWOS as defined in WG15 N514, and to report back to the May 1995 SC22/WG15 meeting.    (Closed)

Did receive a letter back (TT02), also received back a liaison nomination.

9410-32 Member bodies: Provide attendee list for October 1995 meeting to Barry Needham by the May 1995 WG15 meeting.       (Closed)

Barry Needham has a reasonable idea of attendance.

9410-33 Convener: Determine whether Normative reference can be made in JTC1 Standards to documents in a CEN Registry.       (Closed)

See letter attached to report. There is a new doc that has come out since report - JTC1 report on normative references (JTC1 N3418, SC22 1821)

9410-34 Convener: Determine the current status and scope of the SC22/WG15 liaison to CEN.   (Closed)

Jim Isaak sent mail to CEN, invited them to attend meeting (Keld Simonsen is their representative).  Need to determine the appropriate form of liaison.  TC304 says that they have a working relationship with SC22. TC304 has asked SC22 to set up their own to TC304, which has been done.

9410-35 Member bodies: Look at the technical aspects of SC22/WG15 N444 and the applicable portion of SC22/WG15 N515, in time for the May 1995 SC22/WG15 meeting. (Closed)

Debate this in agenda item 4.9.

9410-36 Keld Simonsen: Provide minutes or other pertinent documents from CEN 304 regarding SC22/WG15 N444 and N515.       (Closed)

Document has been provided to Convener for mail distribution.

9410-37 Member bodies: Indicate a preference as to which part of Canada should be considered for the Fall 1997 meeting by the May 1995 meeting.     (Closed)

Ottawa is proposed by Canada, the week after SC22 in October 1997.

9410-38 United States: To recommend a course of action with respect to the Directory Services area of work by the May 1995 SC22/WG15 meeting.    (Closed)

Response in N555.  Work item should be dropped.  Work is being fasttracked elsewhere.

9410-39 Project Editor:  Forward the revised versions of PDTR 14252 to the SC22 Secretariat for processing as a DTR. (R 94-285).       (Open?)

Believe that this has been completed, but need to check.

9410-40 SC21/WG4 Liaison: Forward the Liaison Statement (R 94-286) to SC21/WG4.     (Closed)

Acknowlegment has been received.

9410-41 Convener: Request that the SC22 Secretariat notify the SC27 Secretariat that SC22/WG15 wishes to terminate its liaison to JTC1 SC27. (R 94-287)    (Closed)

Notified SC22 Secretariat that we no longer have a liaison and recommend closing it.

9410-42 Project Editor: WG15 Instructs its project editor to hold editing meetings as/if required, in accordance with resolution R 94-288.    (Closed)

9410-43 SC22/WG20 Liaison: WG15 instructs is liaison to SC22/WG20 to forward SC22/WG15 N530 as a liaison statement to SC22/WG20. (R 94-289)     (Closed)

9410-44 Convener:  WG15 instructs its convener to forward WG15 N387r together with the appropriately modified "front matter" to the SC22 Secretariat for distribution as a consultative letter ballot. (R 94-290)     (Closed)

See SC22 Secretariat letter of 11/9

9410-45 Convener:  WG15 instructs its convener to forward the documents detailed in R 94-293.    (Closed)

See SC22 Secretariat letter of 11/9

9410-46 Convener:  WG15 instructs its convener to foreward SC22/WG15 N518 (disposition of comments for DIS 13210 ballot) and recommend immediate publication of the IS.  (R 94-295) (Open)

2. Status, Liaison and Action Item Reports [written please]

2.1 Issues List     [SD3] Vicechair

 Issue #3: Canada told that Draft 11 fixes this problem - will confirm when see Draft 11 (soon)

2.2 JTC1 actions affecting group   [N544, N545, N546]        Convener

 N544 is a set of three JTC1 documents discussing new policy on electronic distribution of documents.  National bodies can comment through
  1. WG15
  2. Their SC22 body
  3. Their JTC1 body

2.3 SC22 action, Convener Report   [N536, N544, TT04]        Convener

 TT04 - JTC1 has proposed text for how profiles should be progressed out of WG15.  WG15 needs to request work items.

2.4 Report on IEEE PASC Standards Projects  [SD11] U.S.

 Distributed, accurate as of 4/21.  Germany: what is status of some of the ISO work - when will we see printed documents? Merge as they are created or publish as separate documents?

 Discussion put off until agenda item 4.2.

2.5 Liaison & Working Relationship Reports:

2.5.1 WG9/Ada --- RRG    [N   ] Ted Baker

 No report

2.5.2 WG11/Cross Language   [N   ] Paul Rabin

 No report

2.5.3 WG13/ Modula 2 Bindings   [N   ] Keith Hopper

 No report.  Willem Wakker said that LID 11404 has gone for publication as an IS.  LIPC 11386 DS ballot will start shortly. Language Independent Specification Guidelines work has started, CD expected by September 1995.

2.5.4 WG20/I18n     [TT03] Keld Simonsen

 See TT03.  Working on guidelines for internationalization support, etc., together with the ordering support for IS 10646. WG20 wants a response to certain queries.  RIN meets after the plenary so WG15 cannot approve a liaison statement.  WG15 should reply that it cannot respond to WG20 until October.

 TT03 will not be made an official document.  RIN will consider the document and report back in October.

2.5.5 WG21/C++     [N   ] Nobuo Saito

 Nobuo Saito reported that document is in the CD stage. He cannot attend WG21 meeting any more, and asks WG15 to relieve him of the liaison repsonsibility. WG21 disucssing concurrent process problem.  There is a foreseeable requirement for POSIX liaison. Working documents are available on the web as HTML docs and via ftp.

2.5.6 SGFS     [N541, N542]

 Willem Wakker talked to the documents which are the TR10000 drafts. SGFS wants response as detailed in a cover letter and an email.  Want to use the terms, but in an architecturally independent format. Want to ensure that a profile dependent upon POSIX model can be adopted, as well as profiles based upon other models. Does WG15 see any problems here with the approach taken by SGFS? Willem Wakker is happy to carry any WG15 comments to the next SGFS meeting, which will be resolving ballot comments on the documents.

2.5.7 SC21/WG4     [N   ] Martin Kirk

 No business

2.5.8 SC27     [N   ]

 No business
 Remove SC27 liaison from agenda.  There is no SC27 liaison.

2.5.9 WG22/PCTE     [N   ]

 Had first meeting one month ago, appointed Keld Simonsen as liaison to WG15.

 Proposal for resolution of liaison to WG22 (Keld Simonsen), and another resolution for liaison to SGFS (Willem Wakker).

 Germany asked for a list of groups to/for which Keld Simonsen is a liaison.  Convener observed that this information is in SD6.

2.5.10 WG14/C Language    [N   ]

 No document.  Keld Simonsen reported that WG14 has completed their addendum to the standard with Japanese multibyte support, and have completed their first technical corrigendum.  Have begun a revision of the C standard (was approved in 1990, so need revision).  Are looking at object oriented C and other things.

2.5.11 EWOS Liaison - Convener proposal  [N536,TT02,N551]

 EWOS proposed liaison with CT (proposed Dave Rayner from the UK from EGCT [Expert Group on Conformance Testing]).  Refer TT2 to RGCT.

 Willem Wakker asked for WG15 responses from RGCT to N551.

2.5.12 CEN TC304     [N   ] Keld Simonsen

 Doc will be distributed in next WG15 mail.  Are about to complete locale register which will include POSIX national locales.  The registry will be established in 6 months.  Are also doing a Canadian and a European locale, need to go to 6 collating levels for Greek.  Have a report to survey use of requirements about character sets and I18N, and will propose 48 new projects related to I18N in CEN and ISO.  Some will also require POSIX work.

2.5.13 X/Open Category C liaison interest [TT01]

 Cover in appropriate agenda item.

2.6 Editor Report     [N568] Jon Spencer

      Defect Reports/Interpretations & Corregenda[N567]

2.7 Rapporteur Group report/status

2.7.1 Conformance Testing   [N   ] Jerry Powell

 Report to be distributed in mailing - no action required. Meeting held after WG15, no meeting since last WG15 plenary.

2.7.2 Internationalization   [N   ] Keld Simonsen

 Meeting held after WG15, no meeting since last WG15 plenary.

2.7.3 Profile Coordination   [N   ]

 Meeting held after WG15, no meeting since last WG15 plenary. US issue - since no current leader, convener issue call for volunteer to end in August, and terminate RGCPA in October if no candidate is found.  Convener noted there has been a call already. Action Item 11 for this.

 Netherlands spoke against termination clause, in that CPA activities are needed. Possibly use a meeting by meeting call for a leader.  Pointed out that this can be handled by Ad Hoc meeting.  Convener pointed out that if RGCPA is disolved, the work comes back into the plenary.

3.0 Small Group Breakout

3.1 Identification of Small group topics & document assignment

---- Small Group Breakout  [May include assignments on agenda items 4,5...]

3.2 Small Group Reports to Plenary

 No need for small group breakout.

4.0 Actions Arising from Reports

4.1 Action related to issues

4.2 Responses to JTC1 or SC22 actions  [TT04]

 Netherlands (Willem Wakker):
 All procedures set up for ISP to be developed outside of SC22, can't have a NP for ISP currently, want to add a way.  First thing that an SC needs to do is to create a new multigroup NP to develop a new ISP.  For each individual ISP a new work item can be introduced, only requiring SC22 approval.  So SC22 needs a multigroup NP.

 Should we do this?  How urgent is this?  (letter ballot?)

 Convener:  What profile docs are close to approval stage in the US? N552 is an example of a fairly mature ISP from the US. (P1003.18). Letter ballot, request for division of work item may be needed. So either have to preauthorize RGCPA to forward recommendation now, or do it by letter ballot.

 US:  We could approve a resolution that would request that SC22 conduct a consultative letter ballot on this, allowing this issue to be discussed at SC22 September meeting.  Basic action must take place at SC22 - better to have this dicsussed in September rather than next year.

 Keld Simonsen supports JH's resolution. :-)

 Resolution text will be provided by Convener.

 What will the US do with profiles they have developed? [AI 13]

 US has other options - could take to OIW.  Things going on about relationship currently between PASC and OIW.  US has no experience with ISPs.  Do the SC22 guildelines (for ISPs) differ greatly from current process?  Probably not, says the convener.  National bodies should be encouraged to review these US profiles early.

4.3 Proposals related to IEEE PASC activities &/or Priorities

 No comments

4.4 Liaison statements & actions related thereto

 No comments

4.5 Actions related to rapporteur groups

 No comments

4.5.1 Review of Terms of Reference, Task Assignment & near term objectives

 No new tasks (yet)

4.6 Defect Reports/Interpretations & Corregenda


4.7 Position of WG15 regarding X/Open Specifications [N539, TT01]

 France: Lack of understanding on the part of French users regarding relationship between X/OPEN SOLO (AKA Spec 11/70) and POSIX.  They want to use a single specification, concerned about deviations between "standards".  Want an understanding of what will happen.

 X/OPEN stated that SOLO defers to international standards.

 CAT C liaison with X/OPEN significant here.

 Germany:  Often get question "why are DOS, WIndows, etc., not international standards.  Lots of applications available for these products.  Very few unix applications are portable, and there is no way currently to certify any applications - no mechanism.

 France:  ISs dealing currently with servers, not clients.  Win32 is for the client.

 X/OPEN URL address:

 When you specify XPG, you get POSIX.1, POSIX.2, etc.  When you specify XPG, you can guarantee conformance with the branding process, that you don't get from POSIX, etc.

 US:  seems to be general agreement for CAT C liaison with X/OPEN in this group. One of the obligations of forming CAT C liaison is a general statement of joint benefits.  That's the process to get what France wants.  We have things that get in the way of approving such a statement.  We don't have one to read.  Have question raised in N539 about relationship to spec 1170, but we don't have this in front of us.  We need to develop one to take to SC22 meeting in Sep.

 X/OPEN believes that there are no conflicts between spec 1170 and POSIX.  If any exist, they need to be corrected (by X/OPEN).

 Need to understand components of SOLO. Parts that are for historical compatibility and we do not recommend be standardized, other valuable parts should undergo standardizaion.

 Action Item 14 - need both statement of mutual benefit and statement of cooperation among WG15, PASC and X/OPEN.

 What is route to public for information regarding the nonconflicts between X/OPEN and ISO standards? ISO produces bulletin, and has asked JTC1 for input.  WG15 can request space in ISO bulletin for things such as X/OPEN joint statement.

 Martin Kirk to head small group on this issue.

 Resolution requesting SC22 to approve CAT C between WG15 and X/OPEN.

4.8 Review of Project Management Reporting Format/content      [N540]

 Convener agreed to produce a doc like N540 for all WG15 projects.  Convener will do this.

 Danish standards is going to produce a document listing all JTC1 standards - convener will ustilize this to help in his efforts.

 US: consider restructuring of agenda item 5 to include new SD to be produced by convener.

 Will be called SD4: WG15 Project Management Report.

4.9 Review of N444 Technical Comments  [N515]

 UK: Believe that data currently in CEN registry is not correct (but there is an update).  UK feels that only orgs authorized to do locales for an area should be able to submit to the registry.  Question current CEN registry because of other submittals.  These concerns were against CEN N339.  (TC304).

 CEN Liaison:  There is not currently a CEN registry, until a list has been approved.  CEN rules agree with UK concerns.  What there is currently is a list of current locales to be used as examples.  It is just a working documents currently - it has no formal standing with the intent of generating a technical report.  CEN intends to let this issue settle out because there are currently conflicts in the desires of different national bodies.

 WG15 N566 - procedures for registration of european standard locales, superceeds WG15 N444.

 Also comments from Denmark which are included in N558. Should be dealt with in RIN.

 Netherlands concerned with relationship between groups - concerned about fact that only one person represents interfaces among three organizations.  How involved are other gourps?  Are all three groups just passing resolutions to be in line with each other (with the implication that the work is arising from the single person)?

 CEN Liaison:  work is coming from many countries, and by resolution from other groups.  Canada partially confirmed, for items they are familiar with.

 Netherlands: request for RIN to write "web of relations" down.

5.0 Project Activities - registration, balloting, content [WG15 SD11]

 What is the status of the WG 15 projects in ISO?  When does an approved documnent come out.
LIS:  no document expected in near future.
9945-2: 2b to be distributed
2c to be distributed soon
2d four months after submitted to SC22 (from PE)

DIS can come from PE
CD has to come from ANSI.

xxxxx-x: Administered Systems
Have not yet received number (for xxxxx)
Software Admin:  CD registration and concurrent ballot at SC22 and WG15.  Resolution for Draft 14a for CD reg and ballot.

5.1 9945-0 LIS System Interface System Interface [LIS  {1372} CD reg: & LIS Progress
Germany:  If the US is not going to progress this work, can WG15 try to find another group to move this work forward.

 R93-234 addresses this issue.  Says that US will preserve what has been done and attempt to work on LIS as best they can.  Will revisit this issue when WG11 has finished its work.

 WG11 has started some work, based on old PASC (TCOS) LIS document. (Guideline for language independent sevice specification)

 Denmark is offerring some experts to work on it, funding provided to work on POSIX documents.

 National bodies polled to see if (1) they can provide resources and (2) WG15 should continue this work.  All (except US which offerred no national body opinion) in favor of it being done, but no resources other than perhaps Denmark have come forward. Denmark funding is only for this year.

 US noted that there is not a lot of interest in this.  Already have bindings in C and Ada, and with the exception of Modula 2, no other languages bindings have been proposed, seemingly deemphasizing the need for an LIS.

 Convener noted that LIS slows down introduction of standards that users need.  Maybe more important to do applications conformance work.

 Denmark will perform work under IEEE PASC.  Denmark to provide contact, US provide starting work (AIs -22, 23, 24).

5.2 9945-2 Shell & Utilities

5.2.1 Shell & Utilities base {2} IS

5.2.2 User Portability Ext.  {2a} inc in IS

5.2.3 22.41  additional utilities   {2b} CD reg:

 N561 proposals to forward to US for consideration in 9945-2, some future revision.
 N558 (ref: 9410-27) comments on 9945-2.  Have already been submitted to the IEEE PASC working group.
 Draft 12 is earliest draft expected to be the draft submitted for CD registration.

5.2.4 22.43  Security Amendment     {2c/6} CD reg:

 No discussion

5.2.5 Batch Services        {2d/15a} PDAM Ballot [N538]

 No disucssion

5.3 xxxxx-x Administered Systems

5.3.1 System Administration  {1387.1/7+}

 Currently not an active document - it is just an overview document and is a placeholder for future work. Request from Jay Ashford to rename this doc "System Administration Overview" to better reflect what it really is.

 France asked if there was any overlap with X/OPEN and SC21/WG4.  Doesn't seem to be.

5.3.2 Software Administration{1387.2/7.2} R&C

 See above.

5.3.3 User Administration    {1387.3/7.3} R&C

 Projection: to reach CD registration stage by Oct 1995.  Has gone to R&C at WG15, don't know about SC22.

5.3.4 Print Administration   {1387.4/7.1} [N553] CD reg

 Maybe at CD registration early 1996.

5.3.5 Batch Services        {15a}

 No current work in progress.  Placeholder for future work.

5.4 9945-1 C Language Bindings

5.4.1 C Language binding     {1} CD Reg:

 Doc published

5.4.2 22.39  Extensions to base     {1a} na

 Draft 12 approved for Forwarding to WG15 and SC22.
 Adminsitrator has not yet received Draft 12 for forwarding.

5.4.3 Real time extensions   {1b/4} Merged publn expected        [N547]

 N567 is a proposed disposition of comments, recommend that they be accepted.  N547 contains the text of the comments.

 A protracted discussion of publication format and document numbering ensued.

5.4.4 Real time extensions   {1c/4a} Dam ballot closes        [N543]

 This document went through CD ballot with no objctions, which means it is automatically a DIS.  This breaks syncronization. Someone, probably the US, needs to submit a comment noting that syncronization is required.

 Discussion of publishing amendments separately.  Noted that it will be exceedingly confusing to the user to publish them separately.

 It is useful at the DIS to bring several amendments together to avoid the republishing issues.

5.4.5 22.21.40 Extensions to real time{1d/4b} na

 Draft 9 should be going out soon.  Has been approved for R&C in WG15 and SC22.

5.4.6 22.42  Security Amendment     {1e/6} CD reg:

 Soon for R&C at WG15 and SC22.

5.4.7 Transparent File Access{1f/8} CD reg:

 Likely to see CD registration after Oct meeting.

5.4.8 Protocol Ind. Interface{1g/12} WG R&C:

 Likely to see CD registration after Oct meeting.

5.4.9 Directory Services     {xx} 1224.2

 Dropping this work item.

5.4.10  Tecnical Corrigenda?  Status?

 Resolution to have DAM1 and TC merged prior to publishing.   Action Item 31.

5.5 14519 Ada Language Bindings    [N548,N549] Ada Language binding   {5+} ed. changes to ITTF
 Ballot was approved (N549) - Canada voted "no."  Have no  proposed disoposition of comments at the beginning of this  discussion.

  A proposed Disposition of Comments was forwarded at the meeting,  and found potentially acceptable.  If accepted, no Editing  Meeting is necessary.

  No project identified for Ada real time.  Need to request a  division of work to do this work and forward the document that  we have received from IEEE.  Canada was opposed to this,  because Ada cannot currently be internationalized.  The  US noted that an Ada document was fast tracked.  Thus, the work  item has been satisfied.  May need to request a new work item.

  Netherlands suggested that the document could also be fast tracked  without the need for work item status.

  All but Canada voted to move Ada bindings forward (Canada still  opposed because of Ada not dealing with internationalization  issues).  France voted for work item status, Canada voted for  neither, Netherlands and Denmark voted for either,  Japan, US,  UK and Germany voted for fast track.  Document will be fast  tracked.

5.6 xxxxx Fortran Language Binding Fortran Lang. binding  {9} not active
 No comments.

5.7 14252 Guide to Posix OSE

22.38  TR14252 Guide to POSIX OSE  {0} DTR status
  SC22 has not yet received the revised text for DTR ballot.

5.8 13210, 14515-x Test Methods

5.8.1 22.37  DIS 13210   Test Methods {3} IS-1994

 No comments.

5.8.2 14515-1 Test Methods for 9945-1:1990 Resolution of Ballot Comments

 Ballot closes 28-Apr {2003.1}
CD Disp of Comments Ballot will close July 30, need to be prepared for a disposition of comments by Aug 30 if receive any comments. Don't need syncronization because it is already a US standard.

5.8.3 14515-2 Test Methods for 9945-2:1993

            {2003.2} CD Reg Approval
 Second round of sending out to WG15 and SC22 for R&C has just started.  Next draft will probably be the one going for CD registration, probably in 6 months.  If we wish to have a CD registration by Oct, we need to make a request.

5.8.4  Comprehensive Test Methods NP Feedback from SC review

UK does not have the manpower to progress it.  IEEE PASC SEC requested that this NP be passed around to other SECs to see if there was any interest.  Have not received any comments.  May not be any interest to futher this proposed NP.  Denmark says that Denmark may have some interest in this.  Denmark asks for copy of NP from UK.

5.9 Guide for National Profiles & Locales

   Guide for National Profiles & National Locales  [N387r] to JTC1 ballot A revised version has been forwarded to SC22 Secretariat which will forward it to JTC1 for consultative letter ballot - should be completed by next WG15 meeting.

 UK:  Japan has no resources available to progress work, Denmark may have some. Little point in approving NP is no oe available to perform the work in WG15 or IEEE PASC.  It takes five countries who will state that they will participate at the SC22 level.

6.0 New Business

6.1 JTC1 Electronic Format for Docs   [N544=SC22 N1716, N1744,  N1808]

 Strong opposition to current JTC1 directive as worded. Want to include SGML as a format.  Canadian comment about endorsement of proprietary products (MS, Novell) received support.  WG15 will prepare a statement to forward to SC22 Chair to take to JTC1. SC22 N1716 will be incorporated into this statement.  State that JTC1 is heading is the right direction, but please use standards format (SGML), etc.

 Patirck Dempster, Dave Blackwood, Keld Simonsen and Jon Spencer to draft this statement.

6.2 CCTA letter on 'The Future of POSIX'  [TT05]

 Brings up issues of POSIX application conformance testing and cooperation with X/OPEN, etc.

 Can't get off the shelf retail POSIX conformant applications. Steps being taken with X/OPEN are a good direction.  But need to be able to brand applications as POSIX conformant and get retail applications.

 Conformance testing is important.

 CT is important, but more important first is the creation of a demand for POSIX conformant applications.

 X/OPEN success does not threaten POSIX, since POSIX is a part of X/OPEN.  There may not be a real problem because we have accomplished what we wanted - everyone is using a base standard API.

 Maybe what we need is a table analysis of what is in SPEC 1170 and the work that we have in progress and planned.  [AI 33]

 WG15 WWW:

6.3 Distribution of PASC material to WG15

 PASC has reorganized [N   ].  The size of PASC is shrinking, thus so is the size of the mailing list.  There have been many things done for free in the past because the size of the list was large and the relative size of the overhead low.  This is no longer the case, and the cost is becoming a burden.  PASC is looking for a way to prune down the size of the free-mailing list.

 Possibilities are (1) reduce number of people that get free mailings, (2) charge for mailing, (3) one free to each country, others can subscribe.  The concensus seems to be that one per country are enough.  National bodies which never come to meetings should not get free distribution.

 NAPS (the org that does the PASC mailing) can now just send out drafts.  This will be what

6.4 ISO Quality requirements for text  [SC22 N1817]


7.0 Review/approval

7.1 Tasks/Assignments for Rapporteur Groups

 Action item 9505-09 on RGCT Lead Rapporteur.
 Action item 9505-17 on RIN.
 Action item 9505-18 on RIN.

7.2 Resolutions     Drafting Committee


7.3 Action Items     Secretary


7.4 Issues List     Vice Chair

 No new issues.

8.0 Closing Process

8.1 Future Meeting considerations-- Request for invitations

  Oct 23-27, 1995  Orlando, Florida USA
  May 20-24, 1996  Copenhagen, Denmark
  October ??-??, 1996 Munich, Germany

 Seeking Invitations
  Spring 1997  Target: UK
  Fall 1997  Target: Ottawa, Canada (IEEE alignment)
  Spring 1998  Target: France
  Spring 1998  Target: Australia

8.2 Document Number assignment

 N536 Convener's Action Item Report
 N537 Call for volunteers:  liaisons to SGFS, PCTE; lead RGCPA
 N538 Summary of voting & comments:  9945-2 PDAM1 (Batch)
 N539 X/Open specifications: AFNOR proposal to WG15
 N540 9945-2 project management examples
 N541 TR10000-1.3 DTR for ballot
 N542 TR10000-3 DTR for ballot
 N543 MB ballot comments on 9945-1 DAM 2 (Threads) summary
 N544 JTC1 N3284r: Electronic document format: JTC1 & SC22 rqmnts
 N545 JTC1 N3095r: Revised strategic plan for IT Standardisation
 N546 JTC1 N3251r: Policy on conformity assessment
 N547 MB ballot summary on 9945-1 DAM 1 (Real Time)
 N548 WD 1005.5b D4 Ada binding, Real time extensions
 N549 14519-1 fast-track ballot summary (Ada binding) [pass]
 N550 Document list N501-N550
 N551 EWOS: Proposed development and use of OSE profiles
 N552 WD 1003.18 D11 Posix interactive systems AEP
 N553 WD 1387.4 D8 Systems admin: Print interfaces
 N554 Ca Action Item Report
 N555 US Action Item Report
 N556 NL Action Item Report
 N557 UK Action Item Report
 N558 DK Action Item Report
 N559 RGCT Status and Activity Report
 N560 RIN minutes
 N561 Danish proposal for revision of POSIX.2
 N562 ISO Document Quality Requirements  SC22 N1817
 N563 Guidelines for the Production of ISPs by an SC SC22 N1820
 N564 Proposed Normative Referencing of Non-international Standards
 N565 PCTE Minutes
 N566 CEN proc for Registration of Cultural Elements
 N567r Proposed Disposition of Comments, 9945-1 DAM 1
 N568 WG15 Project Editor Report, Twente, May 1995
 N569 Letter to SC22 from WG15
 N570r Proposed Disposition of Comments on 14519 Fasttrack comments, SC22 N1809
 N571 X/Open Application for Cat "C" Liaison to WG15
 N572 X/Open Cat 'C' Liaison to WG15 Statement of Mutual Benefits
 N573 PASC 95 org
 N574 Statement of Concerns Regarding JTC1 Electronic Document Formatting Requirements
 N575 EWOS/EGCT Liaison Statement to WG15
 N576 CCTA letter
 N577 Minutes

Twente Temporary documents:

 TT01 X/Open request to WG15 for Category C liaison

  [superceded by WG15 N571]
 TT02 EWOS/EGCT liaison statement to WG15
  [Numbered WG15 N575]
 TT03 Questions from WG20 to WG15
  [Not numbered]
 TT04 Proposed SC22 NP for Profiling work
  [Numbered WG15 N569]
 TT05 CCTA submission on POSIX Applications Conformance
  [Numbered WG15 N576]
 TT06 Statement of Concerns Regarding JTC1 Electronic Document Formatting Requirements
  [Superceded by WG15 N574]


8.3 Selection of Vice Chair, Secretary for next meeting

8.4 Agenda for next meeting

8.5 Thanks to host

9. Adjournment

 15:30  May 10, 1995

Action Items

9505-01 All member bodies - Report progress on national profiles at the October meeting.

9505-02 Canada - Provide collation weight question to the US again.

9505-03 US - Respond to 9505-02.  (resolution 93-230, open action item 9305-60, 9310-23, 9405-12, 9410-03).  Note that CEN says that 6 levels of sorting are necessary for Greek.

9505-04 Convener - Report to SC22 that WG15 does not expect a project on Directory Services, since the work has been forwarded through a separate SC.

9505-05 Denmaark - Test the synchronization ad hoc email list and ensure that it works.

9505-06 Deleted

9505-07 Convener - Forward US response on 9410-29 to WG13.

9505-08 Convener - Put out call for WG15 liaison to WG13.

9505-09 RGCT Lead Rapporteur - Review WG15 N575 with RGCT and respond.

9505-10 Convener - Report to EWOS/EGCT that WG15 has received WG15 N575 and has referred it to the RGCT for response.  EWOS/EGCT has asked for a liaison and James de Raeve will do this at the EWOS/EGCT meeting in June.  Our liaison will present the status of POSIX conformance testing.  Tell EWOS/EGCT that any documents they send will not be reviewed until our October meeting.

9505-11 Convener - Issue a call for volunteer for Lead Rapporteur for Profiles, with an end date of August 1.  If no one volunteers, it has been suggested that RGCPA be terminated at the October meeting.  If someone volunteers, instruct them set up next RGCPA meeting.

9505-12 Convener - Convert WG15 N569 text onto NP form.  Forward the NP to the SC22 Secretariat for a consultative letter ballot in SC22.

9505-13 US - What will the US do with the ISPs they are developing?  Investigate the US profile process and report on its relationship to the ISP process at the October meeting.  Use WG15 N569 and SC22 1820 for background.  Report what the US is planning to do at the October meeting.

9505-14 Convener - Communicate with the X/Open representative and the PASC Chair to create a statement of the relationship of the work being done in the two organizations.

9505-15 Convener - Discuss with the SC22 chair the possibility of getting space in the ISO bulletin for WG15 items.

9505-16 Convener - Complete project management report for the October meeting for remaining WG15 projects, and publish and maintain this report as SD4.

9505-17 RIN - Respond to WG15 N558 concers about WG15 N515.

9505-18 RIN - Draft a paper characterizing the web of relationships among internationalization groups.

9505-19 Convener - Confirm numbering of division of work for batch services.

9505-20 Project Editor - Schedule a tentative Editing meeting for 1387.2 for approximately September 10-15, 1995.

9505-21 Project Editor - Conduct an Editing meeting for 1387.2 and forward results to the SC22 Secretariat and the WG15 Convener.

9505-22 Denmark - Provide to IEEE PASC and th WG15 a technical point of contact for LIS work.

9505-23 US - Provide the existing LIS work to people identified by Danish national body.

9505-24 Denmark - Report in October to WG15 what the state of their LIS work is, and what they expect to be able to accomplish.

9505-25 US - Provide feedback on WG15 N561 on how to proceed with these items by October.

9505-26 Denmark - Identify input Denmark has provided on P1003.2b, incluing text required for pp 7, 10, 12, 17, 19, 120, and provide to the US prior to July 1, 1995.

9505-27 Japan - Idenify input Japan has provided on P1003.2b for pp 8, 10, and provide to the US prior to July 1, 1995.

9505-28 Convener - Communicate with ITTF to find out how they will name merged documents and report back in October 1995.

9505-29 US - Determine whether integrated or separate publication of upcoming amendments is desired and report in October.

9505-30 US - How will the US handle four CD registrations at the same time?  Provide feedback in October.

9505-31 Project Editor - Work with ITTF to publish DAM1 and the associated technical corrigendum merged as a single document.

9505-32 Convener - Verify that the comprehensive test methods NP actually did go out to SCs, get feedback from SC22 in their September meeting, and report back in October.

9505-33 X/Open Liason - Generate a table analysis of the feature sets in the Single Unix Specification compared with the work being done in WG15.

9505-34 Convener - Reply to CCTA letter, indicating that things are progressing, mentioning successes, X/Open, etc.

9505-35 US - Provide a statement to Japan and Denmark of expectation of resources required to run an IEEE PASC working group project.

9505-36 US - Provide a copy of IEEE P1003.1i (real time technical corrigendum) to the Convener.

9505-37 France - provide material showing relationship among open system participants.

9505-38 EWOS Liaison - Have the EWOS/EGCT forward the documents referenced in N575 to the Lead Rapporteur for RGCT.  Ask EWOS/EGCT to add the RGCT Lead Rapporteur to the EWOS/EGCT mailing list.

9505-39 US - Forward an electronic copy of 1003.1i technical corrigendum to the WG15 email reflector as soon as is possible.

9505-40 All Member Bodies - If any serious defects are discovered in the document in 9505-39, notify Lowell Johnson directly prior to June 5.  The US may use these comments as a basis for not taking the document forward as a US standard.

9505-41 RIN - Develop a draft WG15 position on ISO 10646 impact on POSIX standards for distribution to Member bodies by July 1 1995 (open action item 9310-46, 9405-22, 9410-05).  If this is not completed by July 1, Canada has offerred to write this report.

9505-42 Project Editor - Request ITTF to assign part number 0 to IEEE 1372 LIS for JTC1 numbering (open action item 9310-64, 9405-28, 9410-07).

9505-43 Project Editor - Provides a pictorial view of how standards are managed and combined for WG15 mailing prior to the May 1995 meeting (open action item 9405-34, 9410-09).

9505-44 Project Editor - Provide a report to the WG15 Email distribution list on results of the ad hoc meeting on synchronization by 1 September 1995 (open action item 9405-51, 9410-11).

9505-45 Denmark - Supply National profile to WG15 RIN and WG20 (open action item 9410-12).

9505-46 United States - Forward the following documents to the convener for SC22/WG15 Review and Comment (partial open action item 9410-26):

 P1003.1i Technical Corrections to Real Time System API Extensions: Draft 2
 P2003R Test Methods for Measuring Conformance to POSIX Standards (revision of IEEE Std. 1003.3:1991): Draft 5

9505-47 Member bodies - Review documents listed in 9410-26.  (open action item 9410-27)

9505-48 Project Editor -  Forward the revised versions of PDTR 14252 to the SC22 Secretariat for processing as a DTR. (R 94-285, open action item 9410-39).

9505-49 Convener -  WG15 instructs its convener to foreward SC22/WG15 N518 (disposition of comments for DIS 13210 ballot) and recommend immediate publication of the IS.  (R 94-295, open action item 9410-46)

9505-50 Convener - WG15 instructs its convener to request SC22 to appoint Willem Wakker as the liaison from SC22/WG15 to SGFS. (R 95-298)

9505-51 Convener - WG15 instructs its Convener to forward WG15 N569 to the SC22 Secretariat and request it be submitted for a consultative letter ballot. (R 95-300)

9505-52 Convener - SC22/WG15 instructs its Convener to distribute WG15 N572r, X/Open and SC22/WG15 Statement of Mutual Benefits, for a WG15 letter ballot. (R 95-301)

9505-53 Convener - SC22/WG15 instructs its Convener to forward document IEEE 1387.2 Draft 14a 'POSIX System Administration - Part 2: Software Administration' to the SC22 Secretariat for concurrent CD registration and ballot. (R 95-302)

9505-54 Convener - WG15 instructs its Convener to request SC22 to eliminate this project from its program of work. (R 95-303)

9505-55 Convener - WG15 instructs its Convener to forward the Real Time Technical Corrigendum (IEEE 1003.1i) to IS 9945-1 as AMENDED to JTC1 Secretariat for approval and to the SC22 Secretariat and WG15 for information. (R 95-304)

9505-56 Project Editor - WG15 instructs its Project Editor to work with ITTF and IEEE to publish a single integrated document incorporating IS 9945-1:1990, Amendment 1 (Real Time Extensions), and Real Time Technical Corrigendum (IEEE 1003.1i), with a unique identifying number, eg 9945-1:1995. (R 95-305)

9505-57 Convener - WG15 instructs its Convener to forward WG15 N574 as its response to the JTC1 Electronic Formatting documents (SC22 N1716, N1744, N1808) to the SC22 Chair for his use at the upcoming JTC1 meeting. (R 95-306)

9505-58 Convener - WG15 instructs its Convener to notify ITTF of the French title for DIS 14519-1 as presented in WG15 N570r. (R 95-307)


ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG15 Resolutions
Twente, Netherlands  8-12 May 1995

Resolution 95-297 Establishment of Liaison to WG22

 SC22/WG15 approves Keld Simonsen as its liaison to SC22/WG22.

Resolution 95-298 Establishment of Liaison to SGFS

 SC22/WG15 instructs its Convener to request SC22 to appoint Willem Wakker as the liaison from SC22/WG15 to SGFS.

Resolution 95-299 Disposition of Comments for DAM 9945-1 AM 1

 WG15 approves the disposition of comments on the ballot for DAM 9945-1 AM 1 as presented in WG15 N567r.

Resolution 95-300 NP for SC22 Profile Work

 WG15 instructs its Convener to forward WG15 N569 to the SC22 Secretariat and request it be submitted for a consultative letter ballot.

Resolution 95-301 X/Open's Application for Category 'C' Liaison to SC22/WG15

 Having reviewed WG15 N571r, entitled "X/Open Application for Category 'C' Liaison to JTC1/SC22/WG15", during its May 1995 meeting, SC22/WG15 resolves the following:

Resolution 95-302 Request for CD Registration and Ballot of the draft for Work Item

 SC22/WG15 instructs its Convener to forward document IEEE 1387.2 Draft 14a 'POSIX System Administration - Part 2: Software Administration' to the SC22 Secretariat for concurrent CD registration and ballot.

Resolution 95-303 Withdrawal of WG15 Work Item on Directory Services

Whereas the work to progress Directory Services ( is being progressed within SC21,
Therefore WG15 instructs its Convener to request SC22 to eliminate this project from its programme of work.

Resolution 95-304 Forwarding of Real Time Technical Corrigendum

 WG15 instructs its Convener to forward the Real Time Technical Corrigendum (IEEE 1003.1i) to IS 9945-1 as AMENDED to JTC1 Secretariat for approval and to the SC22 Secretariat and WG15 for information.

Resolution 95-305 Publication of Integrated 9945-1 Standard and Amendment + Technical Corrigendum

 WG15 instructs its Project Editor to work with ITTF and IEEE to publish a single integrated document incorporating IS 9945-1:1990, Amendment 1 (Real Time Extensions), and Real Time Technical Corrigendum (IEEE 1003.1i), with a unique identifying number, eg 9945-1:1995

Resolution 95-306 JTC1 Proposals for Electronic Document Format

 WG15 instructs its Convener to forward WG15 N574 as its response to the JTC1 Electronic Formatting documents (SC22 N1716, N1744, N1808) to the SC22 Chair for his use at the upcoming JTC1 meeting.

Resolution 95-307 Disposition of Comments on DIS 14519-1 POSIX Ada Language Binding

 WG15 approves the disposition of comments on the ballot for DIS 14519-1 as presented in WG15 N570r.  WG15 commends the DIS 14519-1 document to ITTF for publication with the appropriate French title.

Resolution 95-308 Submission of POSIX Ada Language Binding for Real Time Extensions for Fast-track Approval.

 WG15 invites the US National Body to submit its Standard for Ada Language Binding for Real Time Extensions (IEEE 1003.5b) to JTC1 for fast-track approval.

Resolution 95-309 Appreciations

 SC22/WG15 thanks Herman Weegenaar for chairing the meeting.

 SC22/WG15 thanks the Nederlands Normalisatie Instituut (NNI), especially Mr. Herman Weegenaar, for arranging the meeting accomodation and to the staff of the ICSC, University of Twente, for their assistance during the meeting.

 SC22/WG15 thanks Mr. Jon Spencer for serving as secretary for the meeting.

 SC22/WG15 thanks Mr. David Cannon, Mr. Ron Elliott, Mr. Jay Ashford and Mr. Keld Simonsen for their application to the Drafting Committee.

 10-May-1995  15:03 pm