RIN Meeting, May 9-10, 1994, Tokyo WG15 RIN N123 MINUTES May 10, 1994 1. Opening 1.1. chair: Keld Sinonsen Sec: Jim Isaak Drafting Committee: Dempster San, Numata San 1.2. Attending: Japan: Moburo Saito, Masahiro Morita, Yoichi Suehiro, Toshinori Numata, Akio Kido Denmark: Keld Simonsen UK: Martin Kirk Canada: Patric Dempster USA: Andy Bihain, Barry Needham Other: Jim Isaak, Convenor 1.3. temporary document assignment Email from W.Wakker on National Profiles, RIN T01 - assign to 3.2.1.1 1.4. Adoption of Agenda; N114, WG15 N438 N120 & N121 to item 3.2.1 N119 to item 3.2.4; Tokyo 01 to new item 3.2.1.1 - SGFS relation of Natl. Profiles approved with additions as noted 1.5. Approval of Minutes - RIN N115 , WG15 N437 Canadian concern: minutes do not reflect, in 1.6, the reason for mailings at least 90 days prior to meetings was to allow national bodies to review & respond to material if not, RIN should be scheduled after WG15 meeting. Amended minutes approved. 1.6. Administrative Matters 1.6.1. Canadian concerns: did not receive relevant documents 90 days in advance - Canada Rapporteur did not receive materials - encourages change to have RIN meeting after WG15 to permit National Bodies to develop positions related to the material. Keld apologizes for the late distribution of documents in this case. US Rapporture did not get the material, shares same concerns Japan got mailings last week Denmark/Japan concern is that results of RIN should be discussed in WG15 Plenary 1.6.2. Conclusion: Request input from WG15 for guidance on scheduling RIN meeting in relation to WG15 meeting. 1.6.3. Canada: Report document to WG15 is required (Liaison, etc.) 3.3 discussion is targeted at this 2. Action Item Reports 9310-01-Close - No Member Bodies prepared to advocate RIN advocacy of functions 9310-02-Canada CHARID results; leave OPEN on all national bodies 9310-03-see WG15 N461 -Has been distributed, comment back from Japan; OPEN 9310-04-Japan has distributed; Chair to notify RIN and RGCPA, OPEN 9310-05-Docs Distributed, National Body response not compete; OPEN 9310-06-Canada (N119) - CLOSED 9310-07-CLOSED; CEN will be forming registry of charmaps, national profiles, etc. see WG15 N444 SC2 has determined that CHARMAP is only a POSIX issue; WG20 'on fence' 9310-08-Distribution done (N110); member body review is OPEN 9310-09-Distribution done, noted on agenda , CLOSED 9310-10-DONE, see SD-11 April 94 version 3. Business 3.1.1. I18n in POSIX 2b Ask WG15 to provide draft 10 to RIN for review and comment (action item) action on details defered till next time. 3.2. National Body Profiles and Locales 3.2.1. Guideline for National Body Profiles and Locales Document N120 has some comments from Japan in response to input from W.Wakker, WG15 N461 is initial draft - member body review and comment requested. There is a need to harmonize terms and concepts in this area with WG20. How to extend concept of ISP as defined in TR10000 to address requirements for National Profiles? Discussion of scope of work and relation to SGFS work, also on where work should occur (w/Japanese leadership via U.S., or in RIN, or...) Question - is this within TR10000 [does GAP concept provide a basis for this?] Note, proposed table of contents is not a constraint on elements that national bodies might feel need to be included, or addressed differently. 3.2.1.1. SGFS Relation Keld proposes resolution to WG15, based on N120, that WG15 request further clarification from SGFS on the relationship. (to be drafted) 3.2.2. National Profiles and Locales: JP, CA, DK Japan has submitted one. Denmark has also submitted an updated specification, Other CEN work is also being incorporated into RIN online repository. Canada is developing a national profile & locale, schedule for release not yet established. 3.2.3. WG15RIN collection of locales and charmaps [see N123] Status report in N123 for submission to WG15 for information in response to A.I. 3.2.4. AI: charmaps discussion, N119; (including 10646 impact considerations) Discussion of Canadian concerns about the potential need for multiple repetoires of UTF or 10646 to address diverse needs within Canada (and probably not unique.) Action to be based on recomendation on UTF-FSS, with further input from X/Open report on 10646. Need editor for 10646 report to WG15 for Oct. meeting - Keld will do this. Review of N119 will occur at WG15, concepts were discussed and considered to be a useful proposal for WG15 consideration. There is agreement that charmap registry at ISO level is needed from Canada, Japan and Denmark. N444 describes some of the elements for registration, including repetoire. (Action on member bodies to review this.) 3.2.5. WG15 AI WG20 NPOs, CEN registry, N108, N111, N118 3.2.5.1. WG20 NP for registry is on hold until specification standard reaches CD level. Should WG20 or WG15 handle WG15 I18n elements - issues: how are these handled: locales defined, multiple measuring systems, collation, time changes (daylight savings...), --- WG20 is seeking to build on existing work, and encourage WG15 (and other groups) to build on WG20 results. 3.2.5.2. Discussion on how we can encourage CEN to open their registry to JTC1 documents what is benefit of CEN registry to WG15?, but POSIX indicates these are implementation defined (Japan). Canada-can see benefit of common registry, designated as 'official'.; one question about CEN standard from ISO perspective is the appeals process (which would be under control of CEN). - resolution proposed to ask CEN to permit JTC1 member submission and ask for feedback. 3.3. WG15 AI review of program of work; see also WG15 N431, WG15 N280 Issues: what are deliverables and schedule for completion, 'when are we done' 3.3.1. Terms of Reference - (Characterizes expertise required) 'RIN will study the aspects of internationalization related to POSIX and report its findings to SC22/WG15' (March 1990, RIN N017) 3.3.2. Program of work developed in document N122, resolution to forward to WG15 3.4. WG15 AI WG20 framework review, N110 Work of WG20 not sufficiently clear on relation of generic cultural specification (WG20) and POSIX locale (9945-1, and C); and National Profiles. (Concern of Japan) In this context, the current WG20 document may not be applicable to POSIX work ...it lacks harmonization with work developed in WG14 and WG15. Denmark perspective: WG20 framework is consistent with WG 15 work, US and Canada - insufficient time to review document in this context, Canada WG20 group had significant concerns with an earlier draft. Conclusion: MBOs need to review most recent version & provide comments back to RIN. 3.5. .0 issues - No issues identified. (Actively in review in Canada) 3.6. 9945-1 Threads amendment issues, also no issues identified 3.7. System Administration issues - also no issues identified 4. Liaison Reports 4.1. Report on I18n IEEE 1003.x status - covered already 4.2. Liaison reports: SGFS, SC22, WG20, WG14, WG21, CEN TC304 SC22: UTF Registration action assigned to WG14 Convener by SC22 JTC1 has established a relationship with CEN suitable for liasion, etc. WG21 dealing with widechar's via 'template' concept, API for locales being developed. 4.3. UniForum, X/Open JIG 4.4. X/Open I18n - working on locale enhancements, eventually should go into WG20 or 15 4.5. Other I18N activity - no comments 5. Review/Approval of Resolutions, Action Items and Issues List 5.1. permanent Document # assignment 5.2. Recommendations for WG15 resolution #1 - CEN registry feedback sought -- approved, Canada abstain resolution #2 - Request for approval of N122 as RIN ToR and Progamme of work -- Unanamous. resolution #3 - seeking clarification of how a "POSIX National Profiles" can be adopted as an ISP - Unanamous Action Item Reivew - 13 action items 6. Closing 6.1. Future meeting - to be held in conjuction with Oct. 1994 WG15 meeting in Canada 6.2. Thanks to Host Thanks were given to Japan for providing excellent facilities, support and weather; To Keld for chairing the meeting, and Jim for serving as secretary.