From domo@tsa.co.uk Fri Nov 16 14:26:02 1990 16 Nov 90 13:25 GMT id aa00918; Fri, 16 Nov 90 13:04:16 GMT From: Dominic Dunlop X-Sequence: wg15rin@dkuug.dk 13 Errors-To: wg15rin-request@dkuug.dk Date: Fri, 16 Nov 90 12:59:34 GMT Message-Id: <466.9011161259@tsa.co.uk> X-Fax: +44 491 651751 X-Phone: +44 491 652590 X-Address: 9 The Forty, Cholsey, OXON OX10 9LH, U.K. X-Organization: The Standard Answer Ltd. X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.1.2 7/11/90) To: wg15rin@dkuug.dk Subject: October minutes, agenda, attendees, resolutions X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 RIN people (as opposed to mavens), Herewith three nroffed documents: oct90_minute.f (includes agenda) ) (unapproved minutes) > WG15RIN N031 oct90_attend.f ) (attendee list) oct90_resolv.f WG15RIN N032 (approved resolutions) The minutes reflect the discussion which followed my posting of a draft version for comments in mid-October. On the grounds that some mailer somewhere is liable to truncate long lines, I have removed overstriking, detracting a little from the appearance and legibility of the material. In particular, section marks, which look strange enough as an ``j'' overstruck by a ``f'', look even more odd as a plain ``f''. I shall be mailing troff -mm source to Keld and to Jim Isaak in order that these people can generate flashy-looking paper copies for circulation. For good measure, I shall be sending paper copies to these people by physical mail as well. If anybody else wants troff source, please let me know. -- Dominic Dunlop #! /bin/sh # This is a shell archive. Remove anything before this line, then unpack # it by saving it into a file and typing "sh file". To overwrite existing # files, type "sh file -c". You can also feed this as standard input via # unshar, or by typing "sh 'oct90_minute.f' <<'END_OF_FILE' X X X X ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization X X Minutes of London Meeting, 90-10-04 - 05 X X Document JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N031 X X X X XAttendance X X RB Ralph Barker (U.S.) X UniForum Technical Committee X Subcommittee on X internationalization; X (Expert invited by U.S.) X DD Dominic Dunlop U.K. rapporteur X GL Greger Leijonhufvud (Sweden) X Technical reviewer, IEEE 1003.2 X (Expert invited by U.K.) X SN Shigekatsu Nakao Alternate for Japanese X rapporteur, Prof. Nobuo Saito X KS Keld Simonsen Danish rapporteur X DT Donn Terry U.S. rapporteur X X X1. Opening_of_Meeting X XThe meeting convened at the BSI Conference Centre, London, XEngland at 10:00 on 90-10-04. X X1.1 Introductions_and_roll_call_of_rapporteurs X XThe rapporteurs introduced themselves. The names and Xaffiliations of the internationalization rapporteurs and Xinvited experts appear above. A full address list appears Xas an attachment to this document. X X1.2 Selection_of_chair,_secretary,_drafting X XAs agreed at the group's previous meeting, Keld Simonsen Xchaired the meeting. Dominic Dunlop agreed to act as Xsecretary, and Greger Leijonhufvud to supervise drafting, Xwith help in reviewing from Shigekatsu Nakao and the rest Xof those present. X X1.3 Adoption_of_agenda X XThe agenda appearing as an attachment to these minutes was Xadopted. X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 1 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X X1.4 Approval_of_minutes X XThe minutes of Paris meeting of 90-06-11 - 12, document XJTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N028, were approved. X X X2. Status,_liaison_and_action_item_reports X X2.1 Review_of_action_items X XDD: Write up minutes (WG15RIN-N028), circulate by X electronic mail, and forward to convener for entry X into document register. X X Done. X XKS: (Carried over.) Set up electronic forum to canvas X European opinions on and solutions to the problem of X accommodation of IS 646 within the framework of X POSIX. X X In progress. (Carried over again.) X XKS: Work up point 10 from JTC1/SC22/WG15-N091, Danish X national POSIX.2 locale definition, into a full X proposal for evaluation by group. X X Done. X XAll: Review JTC1/SC22/WG15/RIN-N021, draft questionnaire, X and respond, by electronic mail if possible, to DT. X X In progress. (Carried over again.) X X2.2 Report_on_IEEE_1003.x_internationalization_status X XDT reported to the group that, following the incorporation Xof "tiny editorial changes", printing plates for the the Xnew revision of POSIX.1 would be sent to ITTF (the ISO XInformation Technology Task Force). While there is a Xchance that the document will appear as IS 9945-1:1990, it Xis more likely to be IS 9945-1:1991, as it is the date of Xpublication, rather than that of approval, which is Xsignificant. ANSI/IEEE Std. 1003.1:1990 will be identical Xin content, and may appear sooner. ITTF still has slight Xproblems over copyright notices covering AT&T and UniForum Xmaterial appearing in the standard. It was hoped that Xthese issues could be resolved at an SC22 meeting during Xthe week of 90-10-08. X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 2 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X XA few internationalization issues raised in ballot Xcomments remain outstanding from POSIX.1, presumably to be Xaddressed by later revisions of the standard. Discussion Xof these was deferred to f4, New Business. X XThe extensions to POSIX.1 defined in the current draft of X1003.1 no longer have significant internationalization Ximplications, with the exception of the ISO labeled tape Xdata interchange format, which raises the same issues on Xthe handling of filename characters outside the portable Xfilename character set as does POSIX.2's pax. Again, Xdiscussion was deferred. X XReporting on draft 10 of 1003.2, DT said that over 300 Xobjections had been received, with around 80 still Xoutstanding -- many touching on internationalization. XAlthough a considerable improvement over the response to Xdraft 9, the level of objections argued against submitting Xdraft 10 to ISO for acceptance as a CD. Draft 11, due Xover the new year, may be stable enough to submit. The Xfinal standard is likely to correspond to draft 12 or 13. X XA discussion on mechanisms for obtaining timely Xinternational comments on IEEE drafts ensued, culminating Xin the formulation of resolution 4. X XGL reported that 1003.2a (User Portability Extension) was Xin ballot, but had little internationalization content. X XBriefly summarizing activity elsewhere in IEEE TCOS, DT Xidentified 1003.8, Transparent File Access, as having Xclear implications for internationalization. There were Xalso issues, many of them not yet clearly identified, in Xother groups. Resolutions 5 and 6 aim to establish a Xdialogue between RIN and the working groups involved. X XElectronic mail is clearly an important element in such Xdialogues. The group decided to set up an open mailing Xlist, i18n@dkuug.dk, in addition to the existing closed Xlist (wg15rin@dkuug.dk). The new list will be publicized Xamong interested parties, and steps will be taken to Xserialize and archive the traffic on both lists. (See Xf6.3, Action items.) X X2.3 Liaison reports: SC22 internationalization working X group; SC22 ad hoc working group on character sets X XKS reported that the main development of interest to RIN Xwas DS' recommendation that future SC22 Xinternationalization activity should be based on the work Xof WG15 -- even if a few of the requirements which had X X X X90-11-15 Page 3 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X Xemerged in SC22's work, such as a method of handling Xmeasurement units, were not yet covered by POSIX. X XThe group agreed that the proposal made sense, Xparticularly since the localedef mechanism is extensible Xto address future needs. Resolution 7 commends the Danish Xproposal. X X2.4 TSG1_internationalization_activity X XDT reported that he was unaware of any developments in XTSG1, which is in the process of producing its final Xreport. The future of the group following its publication Xis unclear. X X2.5 Other_internationalization_activity_ X XGL reported briefly that the UniForum Technical Committee XSubcommittee on Internationalization, having completed its Xmessaging proposal, had shifted its focus to two areas: Xinternationalization architecture; and data announcement. XBoth were to be discussed at a subcommittee meeting Xcommencing on 90-10-08. X XGL and DT reported that X/Open was close to freezing the Xfunctional content of XPG4, with a projected availability Xdate of 1992. The document will represent a considerable Xincrease in internationalization content relative to XPG3. XIn order that the group can be better informed of X/Open's Xdirection, an informal report is to be requested from the Xorganization. (See f6.3, Action items.) X XGL expressed concern at the number of organizations Xcurrently in the process of defining Application Binary XInterfaces (ABIs) with the aim of creating de facto Xstandards. If ABIs are too tightly written, it may prove Xdifficult or impossible to preserve binary compatibility Xin the face of future standards designed only to preserve Xsource compatibility with previous standards. This would Xbe a barrier to the adoption of new consensus standards. XThe group agreed that developments in this area should be Xmonitored. X XNS drew the group's attention to PortSoft, a grouping of XPacific rim UNIX user groups. It has a specific interest Xin the promotion of the use of multi-byte character sets. X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 4 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X X3. Balloting_Activities X XThese issues had been discussed under f2.2 above, and are Xrevisited in f4.4. X X X4. New_Business X X4.1 Example_national_profiles_and_locales X X4.1.1 Danish X XThe group discussed the details of the Danish locale Xmaterial in Annex E of IS 9954-1:1990 and Annex F of XIEEE 1003.2, draft 10. While there was no problem with Xthe former, the group had a number of questions about the Xlatter. In particular, choice of code 29 as an escape Xcharacter was questioned, as was the use of short, but Xoften opaque, charmap names for characters outside the Xportable filename character set. KS stated that both Xreflect compromises intended to facilitate the entry of Xany character in the charmap from terminals incapable of Xgenerating all encodings. Similar, but inevitably Xmutually incompatible methods are used in existing Xcommercial systems. Tests carried out to date suggest Xthat the method works, but further testing is required. X XThe group agreed that information about the charmap names Xand rationale should be included in draft 11 of 1003.2, Xand that amended versions of the Annex should be Xcirculated to interested parties for comment as soon as Xpossible. (See f6.3, Action items.) X X4.1.2 Japanese X XThe group discussed a preliminary draft of a Japanese Xnational profile for POSIX under development by the XJapanese SSI POSIX group. (A later draft of the document Xwill be made available for registration by the group.) XThe material raised many issues, which were discussed in Xdetail by the group, and will be summarized in a separate Xdocument by DD. A number of action items resulted. (See Xf6.3, Action items.) X XOf the issues raised, a few appeared to be specific to XJapan, and hence within the scope of that country's Xnational profile. The majority are probably relevant to Xseveral territories, suggesting that they should be Xaddressed by the mechanisms defined in international Xstandards for POSIX. For example, the definition of an XLC_MEASUREMENT locale category may be desirable. X X X X90-11-15 Page 5 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X XKnowledge gained through the discussion of the issues Xraised by Japan should be fed into the questionnaire, in Xorder to determine which are of international interest. X(See f6.3, Action items.) X XCollation was among the issues discussed. It was agreed Xthat material describing multi-level collation should be Xincorporated into the next draft of 1003.2 in order to Xgive greater guidance to those defining locales. (See Xf6.3, Action items.) X X4.2 Harmonization_issues X X4.2.1 Harmonization and collection of national locales X and profiles X XJapan proposed, and the group agreed that it was important Xto discourage needless divergence among the means used to Xexpress locales. For example, the charmap names Xcorresponding to a given glyph should not differ between Xlocale definitions without good reason. Clearly, it is Xthe responsibility of ISO to define guidelines for Xharmonization of this type, as the matter is outside the Xscope of any one member body (such as ANSI). DT suggested Xthat a future resolution could express the group's Xconcerns to WG15, and request a national working group Xharmonization meeting under existing rules. This would, Xamong other things, serve notice on interested parties Xthat they should be concerning themselves with the topic. X XBefore the group can put forward such a resolution, Xhowever, it needs to do more work in defining the precise Xareas of concern. Among these are X X - Creation of new categories by national bodies. X X - Creation of new mechanisms by national bodies. X X - Extension by national bodies of limits in the X standard. (For example, of equivalence classes.) X XAn action for the production of a working paper on the Xtopic was put on the Japanese rapporteur, Dr. Nobuo Saito. X(See f6.3, Action items.) The group will discuss the Xeventual disposition of this information, which should be Xas easily available as the standards to which it refers, Xyet not appear to be POSIX-specific, at a later meeting. X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 6 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X X4.2.2 Character_naming X XThe group formulated resolution 8 in connection with the Xharmonization of character names. (See also f4.8 below.) X X4.2.3 Yen_symbol_(Y) X XThe Japanese have a specific problem in a that JIS X 0201, Xa very widely-used Japanese character encoding, gives the XYen symbol, Y, the same encoding as ASCII's backslash (\). XThe Japanese wish to find a way of using the same encoding Xboth for single-character quoting in the shell and Xelsewhere, and as a currency symbol. The context of the Xcode should determine its display representation and its Xtreatment by parsers. X XOn the face of it, this does not appear to be possible. XDD stated that the U.K. position on a similar issue, where Xthe British pounds symbol could either be a currency Xsymbol, or flag a shell comment, had been to resolve the Xissue in favour of shell syntax, as this corresponded to Xcommon usage. A conforming shell script could use new XPOSIX.2 mechanisms unambiguously to deliver the currency Xsymbol in the current locale if it were needed for Xdisplay. X XIn Japan's case, the issue is further clouded by the Xwording of 1003.2, f2.2.2, which can be read as Xdisallowing any alternate currency symbol other than Xpounds and $. The group did not discuss alternative Xwording. X XThe group discussed a number of work-arounds, such as Xcharacter doubling, and heuristic translation of narrower Xto wider character sets, but reached no resolution. KS Xobserved that DS had submitted a potential solution to the XU.S. member body, but had not received any formal Xcomment. It was agreed that the proposal should be Xresubmitted, and that there should be a written response. X(See f6.3, Action items.) X XThe specific issue of the Yen sign will be rolled into the Xongoing exploration by KS of seven-bit character set Xissues. X X4.3 Character_classes_(Kanji,_Katakana,_Cyrillic_etc.) X XGL proposed, and the group agreed, that "All conforming Ximplementations shall support at least, and all portable Xapplications shall use no more than, ". (The final X X X X90-11-15 Page 7 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X Xphrase is shorthand for the classes recognized by common- Xusage C and other tools of similar vintage.) It is Xexpected that the ISO standard for the C programming Xlanguage will (sooner or later) define a mechanism for Xcreating arbitrary character classes by adding new Xkeywords to the LC_TYPE category. A short discussion on Ximplementation ensued, reaching the conclusion that the Xcost of supporting a new and more general class mechanism Xneed not be high. X X4.4 Localedef_discussion X XThe IEEE 1003.2 ballot on draft 10 has precipitated a Xnumber of objections both to the need for support of Xinternationalization in general, and to particular aspects Xof the support proposed. These objections can be Xcharacterized as coming from the Berkeley UNIX community, Xand as reflecting concern that the proposed Xinternationalization support, which does not correspond to Xexisting practice, will force POSIX-conforming Ximplementations to be bigger and slower than would Xotherwise be the case. One proposed solution is to delete Xall internationalization support from the draft, or to Xmake it completely optional. X XThe 1003.2 reviewers, represented by DT and GL, would like Xto find a compromise which would allow these objections to Xbe withdrawn, as a document without some level of Xmandatory internationalization support would clearly be Xunacceptable to ISO member bodies. The guidance of RIN Xwas sought. X XGiving close consideration to the internationalization Xrequirements of current drafts, the group felt that it was Xalready the case that implementations would have Xconsiderable latitude in the degree of change that they Xwould allow to the default and/or POSIX locales. Further Xwording about error returns from localedef could make this Xclear. Of course, the conformance document for such an Ximplementation would have to make it apparent that support Xfor arbitrary locales was not provided. (Although support Xfor a small number of implementor-supplied locales might Xbe provided.) The group was of the opinion that such Ximplementations might be successful in niche markets, but Xwould ultimately be unsuccessful in world markets. X XThe editors will return to the objectors with this Xinformation. X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 8 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X X4.5 TZ,_era X XWork on defining national locales has revealed a need to Xaccommodate timezone names including digits preceded by a Xplus or minus sign, as in GMT+7. (The current definition Xexcludes both digits and signs.) It was agreed that the Xproblem could be solved in a backward-compatible manner by Xintroducing less-than and greater-than (< and >) as Xquoting characters for timezone names. Thus, XTZ="+0" would set the TZ environment Xvariable to a permissible value. IEEE Std. 1003.1 will be Xmodified accordingly at its next revision, and the change Xwill work its way through to a future version of 9945-1. X XThe Japanese need for a national locale which deals with Xera dating linked to the years of accession of Emperors, Xhad been discussed under f4.1.2 above. It is clear that Xthe currently defined mechanisms are inadequate to this Xtask. It is less clear how many locales outside Japan Xhave similar requirements, and whether it will be possible Xto define common mechanisms which meet most or all of Xthese needs as part of the POSIX standards. The Xquestionnaire should seek answers to these questions. XHowever, the group agreed that the TZ specification should Xbe modified to permit era dates, and to allow the Xspecification of date names for the first to thirty-first Xdays of the month. X X4.6 Pax_utility X XThe group considers that the as-yet unresolved Canadian Xcomment about the treatment in archive file formats of Xcharacters from outside the portable filename character Xset stems from a wording problem in the existing text, and Xcan be fixed by an editorial change. (A comment on XLOGNAME has already been resolved in a similar manner.) X XKS remarked that Denmark was working on a general solution Xwhereby arbitrary filenames could be represented on an Xarchive using only an escape character and sequences of Xportable filename characters spelling out names defined in Xthe charmap. (Of course, it will be necessary for Xformat-creating and format-reading utilities to agree on Xthese names, emphasizing the desirability of Xharmonization.) A proposal to the IEEE will be Xforthcoming. X XDD enquired about the status of the public-domain version Xof the pax utility, the development of which had been Xsponsored by USENIX. DT replied that, as far as he was Xaware, it was at the 1003.2 draft 9 level, and, while X X X X90-11-15 Page 9 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X Xlittle effort would be needed to bring it into line with Xdraft 10, USENIX was no longer funding development. X X4.7 Layered_locales X XWork on the Danish locale has shown the value of a Xmechanism which could facilitate the definition of Xfamilies of closely-related locales. For example, the XFaroe Island locale differs from that of Denmark only in Xits TZ, LC_TIME and LC_RESPONSE descriptions. It was Xagreed to raise the issue of the addition of an Xor directive to the input format for the 1003.2 Xlocaledef utility with the 1003.2 technical editor. (See Xf6.3, Action items.) X X4.8 Character_set_terminology X XReviewing JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N030, the group decided to Xdefer requests for formal action from other JTC1 groupings Xand/or member bodies until hearing the opinion of the XPOSIX technical editor on the impact of incorporating the Xterminology into 1003.2. (See f6.3, Action items.) X XThe word "byte", used by POSIX documents in the context of Xa "unit of storage", is particularly problematic. To Xsubstitute "octet", the word preferred by ISO, would not Xbe technically correct, and would result in many Xobjections in the IEEE balloting process. There are also Xproblems in POSIX' usage of the term "string". X XBriefly revisiting the issue of character names, DT Xcommented that U.S. and British dictionaries tended to Xagree more with POSIX usage than with that of ISO. X X4.9 Messages X XThis issue was not discussed because of the pressure of Xtime. The group had heard earlier that the IEEE 1003.1 Xworking group had rejected messaging proposals from XUniForum and X/Open at its July 1990 meeting, and that XUniForum was not devoting resources to the further Xdevelopment of its proposal. X X4.10 Summary_of_internationalization_issues X XOwing to a lack of time for discussion, DT requested that Xgroup members review the draft document that he circulated Xat the meeting, and comment by electronic mail. X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 10 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X X4.11 Questionnaire X XThe notes for the previous subsection apply also to this Xtopic. X X X5. Review_and_Approval_of_Resolutions X X5.1 Resolutions X XThe resolutions appearing as JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N032 were Xapproved. X X5.2 Recommendations_for_WG15 X XResolutions 4 - 9 require action by WG15. The group Xdecided that it was not necessary to forward any documents Xto WG15 from the meeting. X X X6. Closing_Procedures X X6.1 Future meeting considerations -- request for X invitations X XThere was some feeling that the group should meet again Xwell before the April 1991 meeting of WG15. Ultimately, Xhowever, it was decided to schedule the next meeting for Xthe days immediately prior to the WG15 meeting, and to Xprocess as much business as possible by electronic mail Xuntil then. X XNext meeting: 90-04-22 - 23 The Netherlands (exact X location t.b.a) X X[Note: Since the October 1990 meeting of WG15 rescheduled Xits Netherlands meeting to 91-05-13 - 17, it is suggested Xthat RIN's next meeting should be moved to 91-05-13 - 14. XA formal notice to this effect may be expected from the XWG15 convener.] X XNo further meetings were scheduled. X X6.2 Document_number_assignment X XThe following document numbers were assigned: X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 11 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X XN029 Japan Draft raw answer to Donn Terry's X questionnaire XN030 9945-1 Memo on standard terminology X technical editor related to character issues XN031 RIN Minutes, agenda and attendance list X from London, 90-10-04 - 05 XN032 RIN Resolutions from London, 90-10-04 - X 05 X X6.3 Review_of_action_items X XA list of action items compiled by DD was informally Xreviewed. Due to the pressure if time, it was agreed that Xfinal approval should take place once those present had Xseen these minutes: X XRB: Investigate the possibility of links between wg15rin X and i18n mail lists and the uniforum-intl mail list. X XRB: Send KS mail list serializing/archiving software X used by UniForum at Sun Microsystems. X XDD/KS: Send rapporteur list to RB by electronic mail for X coordination purposes. X XDD: Obtain example costing figures on TCOS institutional X representative responsibilities from John X Quarterman, and forward to KS. X XDD: Write up minutes, agenda and attendance list X (JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N031) and resolutions X (JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N032), circulate by electronic X mail, and forward to convener for entry in document X register. X XDD: Summarize issues raised in discussion of Japanese X locale; circulate to group. X XGL: Add % descriptor to date format X descriptions, allowing for explicit printing of AM X or PM (or their equivalents in a particular locale). X XGL: Amend 9945-2 draft to replace the LC_DATE concept of X abbreviated month name with alternate month name. X XGL: Investigate the possibility of links between wg15rin X mail list and UNIX International mail lists. X XSN: Request that a representative of X/Open Company Ltd. X provides a report to RIN either in written form, or X in person at the next meeting of RIN. X X X X90-11-15 Page 12 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X XKS: (Ongoing) Continue canvassing European opinions on X and solutions to the problem of accommodation of IS X 646 within the framework of POSIX. X XKS: Capture RIN comments on informally-circulated 1003.2 X draft 10, pass them back to Hal Jespersen, and X subsequently circulate amended result to selected X members of WG15 etc. X XKS: Send copy of proposal on escape character X substitution to DT by electronic mail. X XKS: Include issue of collision between Yen-symbol (Y) X and escape character in discussions on seven-bit X coded character set issues. X XKS: Pass additional materials on collating, such as X further papers from Alain LaBonte of CSA, to GL for X use in production of future drafts of 1003.2 X XKS: Promote seeking of TCOS Institutional Representative X status by EUUG. X XKS: Arrange to put serial numbers on all postings to X mail-lists. X XKS: Set up public mail-list, i18n@dkuug.dk; announce to X those who need to know and tell them to tell their X friends. X XDr. Saito: Produce paper on issues of locale production X for group. (May already be action from WG15 Paris X meeting.) X XDT et al: (Ongoing) Continue work on questionnaire X XDT: Review following topics, and, where necessary, amend X draft questionnaire to solicit specific information: X X - Need for locale-dependent binary time and date X information from system (struct tm) X X - Interest in and requirements for an X LC_MEASUREMENT locale X X - Interest in greater flexibility in X representation of AM, PM and related concepts, X including noon and midnight, in output of date, X and input to at. X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 13 X X X X X X X X RIN Minutes X X X XDT: Advise X/Open that usage of upper-case for LANG X codes in XPG is contrary to the recommendations of X IS 639:1988, Code for the representation of names of X languages; and that @ () should X not be used in locale names, as it is an IS 646 X national variant symbol. X XDT: Investigate the possibility of links between wg15rin X mail list and X/Open mail lists. X XDT: Request X/Open to give consideration to the X usefulness of an LC_MEASUREMENT locale, and to its X potential contents. X XDT: Respond in writing to KS proposal on escape X character substitution. X XDT: Review following topics, and, where necessary, amend X draft survey to solicit specific information. X XDT: Request 9945-1 technical editor to report informally X on the impact of incorporating the character-related X terminology outlined in JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N030 into X 1003.2. X X6.4 Thanks_to_host X XAs a representative of BSI, DD was thanked on behalf of Xthe group for the provision of facilities and Xaccommodation for the meeting. X XThe meeting adjourned at 18:10 on 90-10-05. X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 14 X X X X X X X X X X X X RIN Agenda X Meeting of 90-10-04 - 05, London X Attachment to Minutes X X X X1. Opening of Meeting 1 X 1.1 Introductions and roll call of X rapporteurs 1 X 1.2 Selection of chair, secretary, drafting 1 X 1.3 Adoption of agenda 1 X 1.4 Approval of minutes 2 X X2. Status, liaison and action item reports 2 X 2.1 Review of action items 2 X 2.2 Report on IEEE 1003.x internationalization X status 2 X 2.3 Liaison reports: SC22 internationalization X working group; SC22 ad hoc working group on X character sets 3 X 2.4 TSG1 internationalization activity 4 X 2.5 Other internationalization activity 4 X X3. Balloting Activities 5 X X4. New Business 5 X 4.1 Example national profiles and locales 5 X 4.2 Harmonization issues 6 X 4.3 Character classes (Kanji, Katakana, X Cyrillic etc.) 7 X 4.4 Localedef discussion 8 X 4.5 TZ, era 9 X 4.6 Pax utility 9 X 4.7 Layered locales 10 X 4.8 Character set terminology 10 X 4.9 Messages 10 X 4.10 Summary of internationalization issues 10 X 4.11 Questionnaire 11 X X5. Review and Approval of Resolutions 11 X 5.1 Resolutions 11 X 5.2 Recommendations for WG15 11 X X6. Closing Procedures 11 X 6.1 Future meeting considerations -- request X for invitations 11 X 6.2 Document number assignment 11 X 6.3 Review of action items 12 X 6.4 Thanks to host 14 X X X X X X - i - X X X X END_OF_FILE if test 29938 -ne `wc -c <'oct90_minute.f'`; then echo shar: \"'oct90_minute.f'\" unpacked with wrong size! fi # end of 'oct90_minute.f' fi + oct90_attend.f if test -f 'oct90_attend.f' -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \"'oct90_attend.f'\" else echo shar: Extracting \"'oct90_attend.f'\" \(3361 characters\) sed "s/^X//" >'oct90_attend.f' <<'END_OF_FILE' X X X X JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on Internationalization X X Attendee list for meeting of 90-10-04 - 05, London X X Attachment to minutes X X X X XRalph Barker (U.S.) UniForum X UniForum 2910 Tasman Drive, Suite 201 X Technical Santa Clara, CA 95054 X Committee U.S.A. X Subcommittee X on Internat- X ionalization X (Expert X invited by X U.S.) X Phone: +1 408 986 8840 X Fax: +1 408 986 1645 X Email: rbarker@attmail X XDominic Dunlop U.K. rappor- The Standard Answer Ltd. X teur 9, The Forty X Cholsey X Wallingford, OXON OX10 9LH X England X Phone: +44 491 652590 X Fax: +44 491 651751 X Email: domo@tsa.co.uk X XGreger Leijonhufvud (Sweden) INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation X Technical St. John's Court, Easton Street X reviewer, High Wycombe X IEEE 1003.2 Buckinghamshire HP11 1JX X (Expert England X invited by X U.K.) X Phone: +44 494 472900 X Fax: +44 494 472383 X Email: greger@isc.com X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 1 X X X X X X X X RIN Attendee List X X X XShigekatsu Nakao Japan Fujitsu Limited X (alternate 1015 Kamikadanaka, Nakahara-Ku X for rappor- Kawasaki, 211 X teur, Prof. Japan X Nabuo Saito) X Phone: +81 44 754 3222 X Fax: +81 44 751 9220 X Email: nakao X %sysrap.ks.fujitsu.co.jp X @uunet.uu.net X X XKeld Simonsen Denmark rap- Center for Anvendt Datalogi X porteur University of Copenhagen X Studiestrade 6 X DK-1455 Copenhagen K X Denmark X Phone: +45 33 13 00 23 X Fax: +45 33 91 18 28 X Email: keld@dkuug.dk X XDonn Terry U.S. rappor- Hewlett-Packard X teur 3404 East Harmony Road X Fort Collins, CO 80525 X U.S.A. X Phone: +1 303 229 2367 X Fax: +1 303 229 2838 X Email: donn@hpfcla.hp.com X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 2 X X X X END_OF_FILE if test 3361 -ne `wc -c <'oct90_attend.f'`; then echo shar: \"'oct90_attend.f'\" unpacked with wrong size! fi # end of 'oct90_attend.f' fi + oct90_resolv.f if test -f 'oct90_resolv.f' -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \"'oct90_resolv.f'\" else echo shar: Extracting \"'oct90_resolv.f'\" \(3422 characters\) sed "s/^X//" >'oct90_resolv.f' <<'END_OF_FILE' X X X X JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on Internationalization X X Resolutions from London Meeting, 90-10-04 - 05 X X Document JTC1/SC22/WG15RIN-N032 X X X X X X X 1. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization expresses its gratitude to the X meeting host, BSI. X X 2. The JCT1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization expresses its gratitude to the X following officers for their services during the X meeting: Keld Simonsen (Chair), Greger Leijonhufvud X and Shigekatsu Nakao (drafting), and Dominic Dunlop X (secretary). X X 3. The next meeting of the JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur X Group on Internationalization will be held on 90-04-22 X - 23 in the Netherlands. X X [Note: Since the October 1990 meeting of WG15 X rescheduled its Netherlands meeting to 91-05-13 - 17, X it is suggested that RIN's next meeting should be X moved to 91-05-13 - 14. A formal notice to this X effect may be expected from the WG15 convener -- DD] X X 4. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization requests SC22/WG15 to request the X U.S. member body to provide coordination copies of X future drafts of ANSI/IEEE Std. 1003.2 to X internationalization Rapporteurs for review and X comment. X X 5. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization requests SC22/WG15 to request the X U.S. member body to initiate a dialogue by X considering, and by providing advance information on, X internationalization issues pertaining to networking. X X 6. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization requests SC22/WG15 to request the X U.S. member body to initiate a dialogue by X considering, and by providing advance information on, X internationalization issues pertaining to other areas X of interest of which the U.S. member body is aware. X X 7. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization commends to SC22/WG15 the action X of the Danish member body in recommending that future X X X X90-11-15 Page 1 X X X X X X X X Resolutions X X X X SC22 work on internationalization be based on the work X of WG15. X X 8. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization requests SC22/WG15 to advise the X SC22 Special Working Group on Character Set Issues X that the work of WG15 requires: X X 1. The definition of short names for graphic X characters and control functions corresponding X to the long names defined by DIS 10646 and other X standards; X X 2. The ability to use lower-case alphabetic X characters in these short names. X X 9. The JTC1/SC22/WG15 Rapporteur Group on X Internationalization commends to SC22/WG15 the X internationalization-related content of draft 10 of X IEEE 1003.2 (the current U.S. working draft of CD X 9945-2) as conceptually representing the minimal X functionality sufficient to provide useful X internationalization facilities to application X programs in a POSIX environment. This is confirmed by X the fact that they are believed to meet at least the X national requirements of the Canadian and Danish X member bodies. X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X90-11-15 Page 2 X X X X END_OF_FILE if test 3422 -ne `wc -c <'oct90_resolv.f'`; then echo shar: \"'oct90_resolv.f'\" unpacked with wrong size! fi # end of 'oct90_resolv.f' fi echo "End of shell archive."