From martin@xopen.co.uk Fri Nov 6 17:00:14 1992 Received: from ben.uknet.ac.uk by dkuug.dk with SMTP id AA13882 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:40:10 +0100 Received: from eros.uknet.ac.uk by ben.uknet.ac.uk via UKIP with SMTP (PP) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:39:42 +0000 Received: from xopen.co.uk by eros.uknet.ac.uk via UKIP with SMTP (PP) id <19675-0@eros.uknet.ac.uk>; Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:32:14 +0000 Received: by xopen (1.36.108.3/15.6) id AA19442; Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:01:38 GMT Message-Id: <9211061701.AA19442@xopen.co.uk> Received: from localhost by xopuk with SMTP (1.36.108.3/16.2) id AA01348; Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:00:14 GMT To: sc22wg15@dkuug.dk Reply-To: m.kirk@xopen.co.uk Subject: WG15 Minutes (ASCII 1 of 3) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 17:00:14 GMT From: Martin Kirk X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG15 N326 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG15 Minutes of Meeting 27-30 October 1992 Reading, UK Chair: Don Folland (UK) Vice Chair: Patric Dempster (Canada) Secretary: Martin Kirk (UK) Attendance: Canada Arnie Powell (Head of Delegation) Lionel Boiteau Patric Dempster Stephen Walli Denmark Keld Simonsen (Head of Delegation) France Jean Michel Cornu (Head of Delegation) Gerard Stein Germany Ron Elliott (Head of Delegation) Japan Nobuo Saito (Head of Delegation) Yukiharu Imafuku Akio Kido Yasushi Nakahara Yoichi Suehiro Netherlands Herman Wegenaar (Head of Delegation) New Zealand Keith Hopper (Head of Delegation) UK Dave Cannon (Head of Delegation) Don Folland Derek Jones Martin Kirk Greger Leijonhufvud (Observer) USA John Hill (Head of Delegation) Ralph Barker Lorraine Kevra Pete Meier Barry Needham Pete Smith Roger Martin (Observer Lynwood Randolph (Observer) Jon Spencer (Observer) Jim Isaak (Convenor) Hal Jespersen (Project Editor) Contents Attachments 1.0 Opening of Meeting 1 Attendance List 2.0 Status, Liaison and Action Item Reports 2 Agenda 3.0 Actions Arising from Reports 3 Notes of Small Group 1 4.0 Project Activities 4 Notes of Small Group 2 5.0 New Business 5 Notes of Small group A 6.0 Review/approval 6 Resolutions 7.0 Closing Process 7 Summary of Action Items 8.0 Adjournment 8 Draft Agenda for Next Meeting 1.0 Opening of meeting The meeting was convened at 1305 by the chairman, Don Folland. 1.1 Welcome from Host Geoff Morris, President of X/Open, welcomed the delegates of behalf of the host, X/Open Company Ltd. 1.2 Introductions & Roll call of Technical Experts Attendance list - See Attachment 1 1.3 Selection of Drafting Committee A drafting committee was formed, consisting of Arnie Powell, Ron Elliott, Ralph Barker, and Yasushi Nakahara 1.4 Adoption of agenda The agenda was adopted as appearing in Attachment 2. These minutes are structured as per the agenda. Where topics were discussed out of order, the discussion is minuted under the appropriate agenda item. 1.5 Approval of minutes The minutes of the Hamilton meeting, N284, were approved with the following changes: Arnie Powell reported that a change to the minutes had been received by E-mail. Roger Martin had commented that he believed that something should be added to the minutes in item 2.3 SC22 Action, Convenor's report about 1003.3. The suggested text was: "Roger Martin as Lead Rapporteur of RGCT, questioned why no apparent action had been taken on initiating the concurrent registration and CD ballot for IEEE Std 1003.3-1991 (Test Methods). The convenor noted that he would check into it with the SC22 Secretariat and take whatever actions were necessary to expedite this action." It was further noted that there was a discrepancy between the electronic and paper versions of the circulated minutes, and some people had not seen Action Items 9205- 41 to 9205-60. As a result some of these Action Items had not been completed. 1.6 Action Items Action 9205-01: US National Body to forward a document (IEEE 1003.3(1991) to SC22 for CD registration and concurrent CD ballot. (see Resolution 182) Status: Done. Action 9205-02: Luigi Bertuzzi: Provide an annotated bibliography of known CEC, SOGITS, etc. documents of interest of to WG15. (Action Item 9010-18.) Status: Dropped. Action 9205-03: The Vice Chair is to update and distribute a copy of N253 to the convenor(flat ASCII file) and the WG15 email distribution. N253 becomes the revised SD3. Status: Done. Action 9111-04: US national body: Send WG15 N177, first 3 chapters of 1003.1 LIS, to SC22 secretariat for onward distribution to SC22 working groups for review and comment. (Arises from resolution 126.) (open action 9105-29 and 9111-10) Status: Done. Action 9205-05: Liaison to WG11: Review the content of WG15 N173, LIS guidelines, with reference to the work of WG11. (Arises from resolution 126.) (open action 9105-32 and 9111-12) Status: Open. Action 9205-06: SGFS liaison to provide documents from SGFS Profiles sub- group meeting to WG15 along with cover note indicating what action should be taken. (open action 9111-15) Status: Done - N313, N314. Action 9205-07: WG15 Convenor to forward N278, N280, and N217R to SC22 as a report on WG15 internationalisation activities. Status: Done. Action 9205-08: US National Body to send letter of invitation to WG15 Convenor re hosting the fall 1993 WG15 meeting. Status: Open. Action 9205-09: Danish Member Body to prepare and submit a specific proposal regarding conversions between code sets (based on charmaps, or otherwise; proposal should give appropriate consideration to XPG iconv). (open action item 9111-20) Status: Done - proposal is included in P1003.2b. Action 9205-10: WG15 Internationalisation Rapporteur to co-ordinate review and comment on the codeset conversion proposal with the IEEE CS TCOS working group. (open action item 9111-21) Status: Open. Action 9205-11: Danish Member Body to expand and clarify proposal contained in RIN N0047 regarding usage of national characters (as defined in ISO 646 national positions), giving consideration that such proposal: 1) addresses all aspects of proposed standard, rather than JUST the shell, (e.g. it should work with not only shell, but also regular expressions, awk, etc.) 2) should allow use of all features of the proposed standard, maintaining conformance, (e.g. currently proposed use of " " would conflict with existing use) 3) should provide a general solution for similar requirements of other countries 4) should be sensitive to the cost/benefit ratio of imposing the solution in relation to existing implementations. (open action item 9111-25) Status: Open. Action 9205-12: France to investigate on co-ordination procedure between their Ada ExTRA and POSIX Real time groups and to report back before the May 1992 WG15 meeting. (Done but doc not received) (open action item 9111-31) Status: Done - N295. Action 9205-13: Danish Member Body to report any feedback from ITTF back to WG15. (open action item 9111-46) Status: Done. Some feedback has been received. Convenor has also been notified. Convenor has forwarded it to IEEE. Action 9205-14: Member Bodies to consider what means are appropriate to include technical corrigenda and proposed new functionality in a revised 9945 1 considering also the requirement that the LI work be done "with no net change" and to propose any recommendations by October 1992. (open action item 9111-52) Status: Done - N260, N306. Action 9205-15: The secretary is to provide a list of actions covering the open resolutions identified in N202, and the resolutions developed at Kista. Status: Open - Arnie Powell. Action 9205-16: WG15 Convenor to notify SC22/WG9 and Dr. Ted Baker that he has been appointed as Liaison to SC22/WG9. (Ada) Status: Done. Action 9205-17: UK Member Body to forward a WG15 request to the Lead Rapporteur of the Rapporteur Group on Security to review the status and requirement for the rapporteur group at the next meeting of WG15. Status: Done. Action 9205-18: WG15 Convenor to update SD6 with respect to recently appointed WG15 liaisons. Status: Done. Action 9205-19: Member bodies are requested to comment on annex F of CD 9945-2 Draft 11.3. This annex was created to address portability considerations. Comments are requested by the next meeting of WG15. Status: Done. Action 9205-20: National Bodies to consider criteria for category "C" liaison to WG15, its rapporteur groups, and project activities, and to provide feedback to WG15 by August 1, 1992. Status: Open - N306, date extended to May 1, 1993. Action 9205-21: Project Editor: Forward N281 and N282 to the SC22 Secretariat. Status: Done. Action 9205-22: Danish National Body to provide copies of ballot comments on Security NP to WG15. Status: Done. Action 9205-23: Project editor to add an informative annex to CD 9945-2 to indicate functionality that is under consideration to satisfy previously identified requirements and to distribute, by email, a preliminary version to National Bodies by 05/15/92. Status: Done. Action 9205-24: National Bodies to respond on Project Editor's preliminary version of the informative annex (new functionality under consideration for inclusion in 9945-2) by 06/15/92. Status: Done. Action 9205-25: WG15 Convenor to investigate the process (rapid amendment) possibilities available to move the planned amendment to CD 9945-2 through the international process as quickly as possible and report back to WG15 at the next meeting. Status: Open. Action 9205-26: German National Body to send letter of invitation to WG15 Convenor re hosting the spring 93 WG15 meeting. Status: Done. Action 9205-27: Japan National Body to send letter of invitation to WG15 Convenor re hosting spring 1994 WG15 meeting. Status: Open - but still possible. Action 9205-28: Canadian National Body to send letter of invitation to WG15 Convenor re hosting fall 1994 WG15 meeting. Status: Done. Action 9205-29: French national Body to send letter of invitation to WG15 Convenor re hosting spring 1995 WG15 meeting. Status: Open. Action 9205-30: Member bodies to advise project editor of proposed attendance at the planned October IEEE 1003.2 meeting in Utrecht. Meeting will be convened as a 9945-2 ad hoc on Oct 22,23 1992 if there is enough member body interest. Status: Done. Action 9205-31: Denmark to provide to the US Member Body detailed proposals for areas identified in their 9945-2.2 comments #s 2, 5, and 9 addressing resolution comments in N281. Status: Open - some comments provided, more to come. Action 9205-32: Japan to provide to the US Member Body proposals for areas identified in their 9945-2.2 comments #s 2, 3, 4, 10, 11, 54, and 57 addressing resolution comments in N281. Status: Done. Action 9205-33: US Member Body: Submit early draft of P1003.2b that addresses deferred issues from CD 9945-2 and CD Amendment 1 ballots for review at the October 1992 meeting. Status: Done. Action 9205-34: US Member Body: Report on the status of resolution 131. (ref: action items 9111-11 and 9105-31) Status: Open. Action 9205-35: US Member Body: Report on the status of resolution 135. (ref: action items 9111-11 and 9105-31) Status: Done - N297. Action 9205-36: US Member Body: Report on the status of resolution 148. (ref: action items 9111-11 and 9105-31) Status: Open - activity expected 1Q93. Action 9205-37: French National Body: Forward a statement of support to WG15 for forwarding to TCOS-SS/SEC supporting the work of POSIX .4a and encouraging it to come forward as quickly as possible, as well as N262. Status: Done. Action 9205-38: US Member Body to forward AFNOR comments, N262 to the chair of IEEE POSIX .4. Status: Done. Action 9205-39: US Member Body: Ensure that all ballot group formation invitations and other appropriate documents to national member bodies. (HODs) Status: Done. Action 9205-40: US Member Body: Forward the Danish proposal, N266 to IEEE POSIX.1 for their review. Status: Done. Action 9205-41: US Member Body: Obtain a coordination ballot from SC27 on the current draft of POSIX.6. Status: Open. Action 9205-42: WG15 Convenor to notify Convenor of WG21 that Professor Nobuo Saito has been nominated as Liaison to SC22/WG21. (C++) (Resolution 186) Status: Done. Action 9205-43: WG15 Convenor to notify Mr. Andrew Walker and the Chair of SGFS of Andrew's appointment as the SC22/WG15 Liaison to SGFS. (Resolution 187) Status: Done. Action 9205-44: US Member Body to forward a copy of the initial ballot draft IEEE P1003.0 (Guide) to SC22 for review and comment. (Resolution 191) Status: Done. Action 9205-45: National Bodies are requested to nominate candidates for Liaison to SC21/WG4. Status: Done Action 9205-46: WG15 Convenor to notify the SC22 Secretariat that ballot responses from New Zealand, Japan, and Denmark were transmitted by the National Bodies to the SC22 Secretariat but apparently not received and reflected in the ballot summary. (Resolution 193) Status: Done Action 9210-19: Convenor: Verify that SC22 Secretariat has received ballot responses from active WG15 members. Action 9205-47: Japanese National Body to advise SC22 Secretariat in writing that they have changed their no vote on advancing CD 9945-2 and CD Amendment 1 to DIS to a yes vote. (Resolution 194) Status: Done. Action 9205-48: US Member Body to forward 9945-2(combined 2/2a) to SC22 Secretariat for DIS registration and ballot. (Resolution 194) Status: Done. Action 9205-49: WG15 Convenor to forward the RIN National Conventions Questionnaire to the SC22 Secretariat for distribution to SC22 P and O members. (Resolution 195) Status: Done Action 9210-20: Convenor: Request SC22 Secretariat to distribute the document for response. Action 9205-50: US Member Body to submit a draft NP for LIS at the next meeting of WG15 bringing this document forward as a type 3 Technical Report. (Resolution 197) Status: Open. Action 9205-51: WG15 Convenor to inform all JTC 1 language committees of WD 9945-1(LIS) and request their review and comment. (Resolution 198) Status: Done: Action 9205-52: WG15 Liaison to WG20 to transmit WG15 N283 as a WG15 liaison to statement to WG20. (Resolution 201) Status: Done. Action 9205-53: Lead Rapporteur - Security Rapporteur Group: Investigate liasion with EWOS re security issues and report back to WG15 at WG15's next meeting. Status: Open. Action 9205-54: WG15 Convenor: Request feedback from ITTF on format prior to the distribution of DIS 9945-2. Status: Done. Action 9205-55: US National Body to investigate the concerns expressed in ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG15 N220 and propose a solution to these issues, also taking into account the ECMA PCTE work, and to provide this to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG15 for its next meeting. Status: Open. Action 9205-56: US National Body to review the ECMA PCTE (ECMA 149 - Abstract Specification & 158 - C Language Binding) with respect to its security functions, and to report back the findings at the next ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG15 meeting. Status: Done - N319. Action 9205-57: National Bodies to nominate candidates for the position of Liaison to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22/WG13. (Modula-2) Status: Done. Action 9205-58: WG15 Convenor to forward N227 to the Convenor of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Ad Hoc on Interpretations with the request that the Convenor of WG15 provide feedback to WG15 at its next meeting. Status: Done - N302. Action 9205-59: National Bodies to nominate candidates for the position of Liaison to ECMA TC33. Status: Open. Action 9205-60: WG15 Convenor to request that SC22 notify its working groups developing POSIX language bindings to actively participate in the development of POSIX language independent standards in order to ensure that the requirements for their language bindings are met. Status: Open. 1.7 Identify Members & Schedules of ad hocs The meeting was divided into 3 ad hoc groups on Wednesday to address the issues listed below. Reports back from the ad hoc groups are minuted under the appropriate agenda items. The "raw" minutes of the ad hoc groups are provided as Attachments 3, 4 and 5. The topics/documents assigned to each small group were as follows: SG1 9945-1 content: .4, .6, .8, LIS, .16 N288, 291, 292, 304, 309 .4/.4a/.4b issue wrt languages Walli, Cornu, Jones, Suehiro, Kido, Barker, Spencer, Hopper, Powell, Simonsen SG2 Review of 9945-3 System Admin work, and .7.1 Status update SC22/WG4 Draft Liaison Statement 15RTN-7 SC15 Media Formats N298 Jespersen, Meier, Dempster, Imafuku, Kirk, Simonsen SGA Administrative issues: NP's N309, 15RTN-2Res4 Synchronisation N302,305 Category C liaison N306, 15RTN-3Res1 OIW Request for liaison N290 SC22 Cross-Language Questionnaire N315 Technical Corrigenda N260, 306 SC21 API Study Group 15RTN-5 Cannon, Kevra, Saito, Nakahara, Hopper, Wegenaar, Elliot, Stein, Randolph, Simonsen, Boiteau The ad hoc groups were given directions to discuss issues and where possible produce first drafts of resolutions. Three possible deliverables were identified - Resolutions, Liaison Statements, and Disposition of Comments. Brief minutes of the ad hoc groups are provided as attachments to these minutes. 2.0 Status, Liaison and Action Item Reports This set of agenda items was intended to review written reports submitted prior to the meeting. It was not intended to hold major discussions on routine matters. 2.1 Issues List There have been no changes to the Issues List arising from the Hamilton meeting. 2.2 JTC 1 actions affecting group The Convenor reported that JTC 1 had adopted updated directives. These include Category 'C' liaison and some issues related to TR-10000. 2.3 SC22 action, Convenor Report SC22 has taken several actions affecting WG15, including a recommendation on synchronisation plans. SC22 has produced a questionnaire on Cross-language activity, SG15/N315. It is attempting to get a better understanding as to how various SC22 activities inter-relate. The US asked if WG15 needed to do something in relation to SC22 Resolution BF on character sets and character set concepts. Keith Hopper (Convenor of the proposed ad-hoc meeting) reported that he has invited 40 relevant bodies to nominate experts to attend the meeting. The intent of the meeting is to address the SC22 issues. Participation will extend beyond SC22 and it's working groups. The meeting is scheduled for 21-23 April, 1993 in Copenhagen. 2.4 Report on IEEE TCOS Standards Projects Lorraine Kevra presented the current IEEE status. WG15/SD-11. 2.5 WG15 Priorities and Target Dates No action. 2.6 Liaison Reports: The US proposed a resolution requiring WG15 liaisons to produce regular written liaison reports, and that such reports be entered into the WG15 document register. 2.6.1 C language, Ada, FORTRAN, C++ The C++ liaison report is WG15/N296. The Convenor tasked if there is a need for a C++ binding. WG21 meets next week, and at present it does not believe that there is a strong requirement for such a binding. WG21 has a document which suggests that C and C++ should be sufficiently compatible that the C binding should suffice for C++. Compatibility is not a primary requirement, but it is required that any differences be documented. wchar is now a C++ keyword. The Ada liaison report is WG15/N295. ExTRA is now an SC22/WG9 project. There is also a proposed IEEE ADA real-time project. France is concerned that this may result in 2 projects in the same space. The US asked what action is needed? France responded that perhaps there should be an Action Item on the US to investigate possible overlap between the WG9 proposal and the new TCOS proposed PAR. New Zealand anticipated that a similar problem may arise with the Modula-2 bindings. This is probably a general problem with any language that includes concurrency in the language itself. It was decided that this topic should be added issues log. The US stated that there is a CD in progress for real-time, and that the US intends to vote against it, as several problems have been identified in the IEEE balloting. The US felt that there are issues in real-time specifically relating to the Ada functionality provided by a separate working group. New Zealand felt that there is a potential conflict between the real-time semantics provided by POSIX and languages themselves which provide or intend to provide real-time functionality. There is a conflict between the language and the environment. The US felt that this was rather open, and that the group should adopt a concrete issue, so that it can be addressed. New Zealand felt that as we don't know the full extent of problem, we shouldn't restrict the problem. SC22/WG14 working on an amendment for C, Derek Jones is the Project Editor. It is also looking at locale specifications. Japan pointed out that concern has been voiced in RIN about "stateful" encoding. The SC22/WG14 Multibyte Support Extension will introduce this into standard. The issue should be reviewed carefully. The Japanese proposed MSE does not support stateful encoding., however is being changed to introduce 6 new functions to support this. It is possible that there could be a mis-match between POSIX and WG14 directions on stateful encoding. The US asked if this should be addressed through our liaison? RIN is proposing to make a liaison statement to WG14, which will be approved at this meeting.. 2.6.2 WG13 Modula 2 The Modula 2 liaison report is WG15/N311. SC22WG13 has only just started to look at a POSIX binding. The WG13 desire to have provable software has some problems with POSIX specifications. WG13 hopes to have early drafts in Vancouver next May. and commence review in early 1994. The Modula 2 standard is expressed in VDM and English. VDM takes precedence, English text is purely descriptive. 2.6.3 SC22/WG11 The liaison report is WG15/N309. SC22/WG11 would like to move the TCOS Guidelines for LIS Methods (SC22 N1251) forward as an IS TR Type 3. WG11 does not have the manpower and wanted to know whether WG15 would be willing to move it forward. WG15 requested the US to produce input for a NP for forwarding this work as a TR (Action item 9205-50). The US believes that this could be done for the current work. In order to move the work forward we would have to find members bodies who were willing to work on this item and also a Technical Editor for the document. The UK summarised as follows: We are not sure that the LIS work is mature and we are not sure that we have the manpower to complete the work. Proposed response to WG11 along the lines "It is under active consideration referencing Resolution 197". 2.6.4 PCTE N286, N289. There are not perceived to be any problems arising between WG15 and PCTE, which is being fast-tracked. The Convenor felt that the relationship should be one of mutual knowledge so that conflicts are avoided. However, as the 2 groups use different terminology, this may not always work! 2.6.5 Security, SC27, SC21 We now have no liaison to SC27. 2.6.6 SC22/WG20, SC2/SC22 ad hoc WG15/N312 is the liaison statement from last weeks WG20 meeting in Canada. It takes notes of WG15 Resolution 190, and reports that they will maintain their different terminology as it covers a wider area than our locale. Both groups are working on extended identifiers, the WG15 approach is compatible with WG20. WG15 Resolution 190 wanted charmaps included in the registry. WG20 believes this is not necessary. WG20 now have a method which addresses short character identifiers. RIN is drafting a Liaison Statement to address some of these points. 2.6.7 SGFS N313, N314 are the liaison reports which have already submitted to RGCPA. There are no outstanding actions from SGFS. There is a sub-group meeting in December on TR10000-3. 2.6.8 CEN/CENELEC CEN/CENELEC is discussing making a registration standard for collation sequences and locales. They are not going to proceed with this at the current time, ISO is felt to be the better place to do this. The US felt that these are important issues for POSIX, and asked when will WG15 get the technical requirements so that they can be reviewed. The relevant committee is CEN TC304, Technical Committee on Character Sets. The work is approved, but no money has yet allocated, so the work has not commenced. The US was repeated that WG15 still needed to know when it can evaluate the impact of the requirements. Denmark reported that it's contribution to TC304 is very much in line with what they have submitted to POSIX. 2.6.9 SC15 Media Formats See section 4.2. 2.6.10 SC21 API Study Group SC22 N1178 refers. JTC 1 has a policy that if an SC is going to start work on a large new area of work it should have a study period first. As SC21 was going to look at APIs they decided to take this approach. The document notes that SC22 has interest in these areas and invites SC22 to comment on it. SC21 decided that for administration purposes it would allow that study to be done by its WG7, which includes ODP. 2.6.11 OIW request for liaison N290 refers. The document designates J J Cinecoe as liaison from OIW to WG15. The US pointed out that the JTC 1 directives indicate that organisations with Category S status can liaise to SCs, not WGs and RGs. Therefore the request is mis-directed. 2.7 Editor The Project Editor's report is N307. 9945-2 will not have line numbers. Some people hate this, others love it. As a result the IEEE standard and the IS may not be page for page identical. 2.8 Rapporteur Group report/status 2.8.1 Security The RGSec report is WG15/N320. The report was presented by Jon Spencer. It is required to transmit D13 of P1003.6 to SC21 and SC27. A resolution was developed to address this issue. RGSec recommends that it should continue in existence as there is outstanding current work, notably X.400 and X.500. In addition there is increasing activity in this whole area of security and there is therefore a continuing need for coordination activities. It was also felt that the Danish No vote on N304 could be addressed in one of the small groups by the production of a suitable Disposition of Comments. Japan noted that their was discussion on issues related to internationalisation and audit logs. The need for a resolution was identified, but at the current time it was felt that further information was required before that resolution could be identified. Japan further identified problems in the usage of the terms "character" and "byte" in the P1003.6 document. RIN should be requested to provide guidance to standards developers in order to avoid such problems in the future. The specification of character-oriented interfaces require careful consideration of internationalisation issues that do not affect interfaces specified in terms of bytes. US nominated Jon Spencer as Lead Rapporteur for RGSec and as liaison from WG15 to SC27 and SC21. Canada nominated Lionel Boiteau as Lead Rapporteur, and liaison to SC27 and SC21. 2.8.2 Conformance Testing The RGCT report is N322. Roger Martin presented the report. 7 resolutions were generated in the RGCT meeting. P1003.3 has been mis-registered as a Type 3 Technical Report rather than as a new standard. A resolution instructs the Convenor to notify the SC22 Secretariat and request them to fix it ASAP. This is a very important issue to RGCT. WG15/N299 was not circulated effectively, and indicated that P1003.3 should be a Technical Report. This was probably a typographical error. Roger Martin is stepping down as the RGCT Lead Rapporteur. He will attend Heidelberg, but a new Lead Rapporteur is sort. 2.8.3 Internationalisation The RIN report is N323. Keld Simonsen presented the report. RIN discussed the comments received. RIM intends to produce Technical Reports on both profiles and locales. It was felt that there was a need to clarify the relationship between RIN and the SGFS activities. 2.8.4 Profile Co-ordination The RGCPA report is N321. Arnie Powell reported on the RGCPA meeting and presented the resolutions arising from the meeting. RGCPA had discussions on status of EWOS and OIW, and believed that category S liaison allowed them to participate without having to seek catagory C liaison. 2.9 Resolution Status 2.10 Proposals for consideration of additional resolutions/actions 2.11 Considerations related to Category "C" liaison N306, the UK response to C Liaison was discussed during the small group session. 2.12 Synchronisation of Interpretations WG15/N302 refers. TCOS is working on updating the synchronisation plan and suggested that WG15 wait until the May 1993 meeting to discuss this updated plan. 3.0 Actions Arising from Reports Action 9210-21: Member Bodies: Identify experts who could participate in a meeting on character sets and character set concepts in Copenhagen, April 21-23, 1993. Input should be sent to the WG15 convenor by December 1st. Action 9210-22: Member Bodies: Review WG15/N330 and provide feedback through their RIN rapporteurs. Action 9210-23: Member Bodies: Bring the issues of stateful encoding within the new WG14 activities to the attention of their national experts, with special care given to issues that may conflict with 9945-2. Action 9210-24: WG15/WG11 Liaison: Forward proposed answer to WG11 regarding LIS Guide work. Action 9210-25: US: Take N309 into account in their Draft NP for the LIS work. Action 9210-26: CEN/CENELEC Liaison: Forward contributions received in CEN/CENELEC TC304 to WG15. Action 9210-27: Member Bodies: Review and comment on areas of mutual interest between WG15 and SC21 contained in WG15 N324 (SC22/N1178). Forward comments to both SC21 and SC22/WG15. Action 9210-28: Convenor: Respond to OIW expressing that request for S- Liaison is inappropriate for WG15, it should have been sent to SC22. However, it is our understanding that they are welcome to participate in WG15 Rapporteur Group meetings without such a liaison. Action 9210-29: RGSec Lead Rapporteur: Respond to the SC27 liaison request. The proposed response is to be circulated within WG15 for approval prior to its transmission to SC27. If the response is approved it should be forwarded to SC27. Action 9210-30: Member Bodies: Comment on the proposed response to the SC27 liaison request in time for its transmission to SC27. Action 9210-31: RGSec Lead Rapporteur: Identify and carry through an appropriate response to N144. Action 9210-32: RIN Lead Rapporteur: Investigate the production of guidelines for standards developers for the usage of the terms character and byte in the definition of interfaces, with especial attention to the internationalisation issues arising from character-based interfaces. Action 9210-33: US and Canada: Nominees for the post of RGSec Lead Rapporteur to provide a short statement to the Convenor describing their qualifications relevant to fulfilling this post within 2 weeks of the end of the October 1992 WG15 meeting. Action 9210-34: Convenor: Initiate a letter ballot for the post of RGSec Lead Rapporteur, and to circulate the short qualification statements from the candidates along with the letter ballot. The letter ballot is to be initiated within 3 weeks of the October 1992 WG15 meeting. Action 9210-35: Convenor: Notify SC21 and SC27 that Lionel Boiteau has been appointed as liaison from WG15. Action 9210-36: Convenor: Notify ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat by November 6th, 1992 of the error in the registration of P1003.3 and request that the error be corrected as soon as possible. Action 9210-37: Convenor: Express the thanks of WG15 to X/Open for supplying a copy of their standards policy. Action 9210-38: US: Provide an updated synchronisation plan which incorporates interpretations (WG15/N302), prior to the May 1993 WG15 meeting, for discussion at that meeting. Action 9210-39: Member Bodies: Review N302 and N305 and provide input to the US regarding any concerns or recommendations that they may have regarding synchronisation as soon as possible. Work will be done on this at the Jan. 10 1993 TCOS meetings. Action 9210-40: Member Bodies: Nominate candidates for the position of Lead Rapporteur for RGCT in time for selection at the May 1993 SC22/WG15 meeting. Action 9210-41: Convenor: Notify ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat by November 6th, 1992 of the error in the registration of P1003.3 and request that the error be corrected as soon as possible. (Resolution 203). Action 9210-42: Convenor: Conduct a consultative letter ballot of SC22/WG15 to determine the acceptability of the text of WG15 N331 as an NP proposal. (Resolution 205). Action 9210-43: Convenor: Forward N331 to JTC 1/SC22 as an NP proposal should the WG15 consultative ballot close with no negative ballots and with no substantive ballot comments. (Resolution 205). Action 9210-44: US: Provide the WG15 Convenor with a copy of IEEE Std. 1003.3.1-1992 for submission for CD registration subject to the approval of the related NP. (Resolution 206). Action 9210-45: Convenor: Forward a copy of IEEE Std. 1003.3.1-1992 to ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 for CD registration subject to the approval of the related NP. (Resolution 206) Action 9210-46: US: Bring forward for SC22/WG15 consideration any work related to Test Methods under development in the US in accordance with the agreed synchronisation plan subject to the approval of the NP. (Resolution 207). Action 9210-47: US: Circulate IEEE P1003.3.2 to WG15 members for review and comment. (Resolution 208). Action 9210-48: SGFS Liaison: Forward document WG15/N297 (P1003.0 Draft 15), document WG15/N164 (P1003.18 Draft 3) SGFS. (Resolution 209). Action 9210-49: Member Bodies and Liaisons: Offer specific recommendations on how profiles can be constructed in areas where standardisation work is incomplete, and where there are insufficient standards to meet fully the user need. (Resolution 210). Action 9210-50: US: Provide IEEE 1003.0 (Draft 16 or later), to the SC22/WG15 Convenor. (Resolution 211). Action 9210-51: Convenor: Forward the version of P1003.0 provided by the US to the ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC22 Secretariat for registration as a CD for a Type 3 Technical report. (Resolution 211). Action 9210-52: Convenor: Notify SC21/WG4 that Mr M Kirk has been appointed liaison from SC22/WG15. (Resolution 212). Action 9210-53: Convenor: Notify SC22/WG13 that Mr K Hopper has been appointed liaison from SC22/WG15. (Resolution 213). Action 9210-54: Convenor: Notify SC27 that Mr L Boiteau has been appointed liaison from SC22/WG15. (Resolution 214). Action 9210-55: Convenor: Notify SC21/WG1 that Mr L Boiteau has been appointed liaison from SC22/WG15. (resolution 215). Action 9210-56: Convenor: Forward the WG15/N319 document to ECMA TC33 for review and comment. (Resolution 216). Action 9210-57: US: Forward P1003.6 Draft 13 to the Convenor for registration as a WG15 document. (Resolution 217). Action 9210-58: SC21/WG1 and SC27 Liaison: Forward the WG15 document (P1003.6, Draft 13) submitted by the US for review and comment to both SC21/WG1 and SC27. Input should be requested within the time period allowed to members of the balloting group for P1003.6. The Liaison to SC21/WG1 and SC27 to forward the responses from SC21/WG1 and SC27 to the P1003.6 ballot resolution group in a timely manner. (Resolution 217). Action 9210-59: Convenor: Audit all JTC 1, SC22 and WG15 ballots and ballot resolutions concerning SC22/WG15. (Resolution 218). Action 9210-60: Convenor: Distribute a report of the results of the ballot audit prior to its May 1993 meeting. (Resolution 218). Action 9210-61: Convenor: Make discussion of the ballot audit an agenda item at the May 1993 WG15 meeting. (Resolution 218). Action 9210-62: Project Editor: In consultation with the US, to report back at the May 1993 WG15 meeting on the feasibility of merging the real time extensions into 9945-1LIS before 9945-1LIS becomes an international standard taking into account the provision that this should be done without adversely affecting the progress of the existing C-language versions of P1003.4 (Real-Time Extensions) and P1003.4a (Threads). (Resolution 219). Action 9210-63: France: Identify any potential semantic differences between IEEE Std. 1003.5-1992 and ISO 9945-1:1990 and report to WG15 before the May 1993 WG15 meeting. (Resolution 221). Action 9210-64: Member Bodies: Consider the advisability of registering IEEE P1003.5-1992 as a Type 2 Technical Report. (Resolution 221). Action 9210-65: Convenor: Forward the Liaison Statement WG15/N327 to SC15. Action 9210-66: Convenor: Forward the Liaison Statement WG15/N328 to SC22/WG14. Action 9210-67: SC22/WG20 Liaison: Forward the Liaison Statement WG15/N328 to SC22/WG20. Action 9210-68: SC22/WG11 Liaison: Forward the Liaison Statement WG15/N28 to SC22/WG21. Action 9210-69: SC22/WG20 Liaison: Forward the Liaison Statement WG15/N329 to SC22/WG20. Action 9210-70: US: 1. Consider the support of shell programming interface internationalisation enhancement facilities in early versions of 9945-1 amendments (such as P1003.1a) currently in plan. 2. Inform SC22/WG15 of any plans for synchronising the internationalisation interfaces between 9945-1 and 9945-2. (Resolution 222). Action 9210-71: US: 1. Consider the LIS and language-binding interface changes necessary to handle character-oriented features as symbol and not storage patterns for a future revision of 9945-1. 2. Inform SC22/WG15 of any plans for supporting such features in future revisions of all parts of the 9945 Standard. (Resolution 223). Action 9210-72: SGFS Liaison and RIN rapporteurs: Discuss how to provide a report describing the SGFS perspective on National Profiles, with especial consideration of the use of the terms POSIX National Profile, National Locales, and National Profile. Action 9210-73: SGFS Liaison: Provide a report describing the SGFS perspective on National Profiles, with especial consideration of the use of the terms POSIX National Profile, National Locales, and National Profile. Action 9210-74: Member Bodies: Reply directly to the Chair of the Ad Hoc committee, (Lorraine Kevra) before 1 Feb. 1993 stating their opinions in respect to questions 4,5,8, and 9 in the SC22 Cross Language Questionnaire. (Resolution 226) Action 9210-75: Convenor: Request JTC 1/SC22 WGs developing language bindings to reply directly to the Chair of the SC22/WG15 Ad Hoc committee (Lorraine Kevra) before 1 Feb. 1993 in answer to the technical questions 11-17 in the SC22 Cross Language Questionnaire. (Resolution 226) Action 9210-76: Lorraine Kevra: Incorporate answers to the administrative questions in the SC22 Cross Language Questionnaire with any other responses received from Member Bodies and other SC22 WGs and to reply to JTC 1/SC22 on behalf of SC22/WG15 before 1st March 1993. (Resolution 226) 4.0 Project Activities - registration, balloting 4.1 9945-1 The UK has been discussing the concept of a new class of conformance, "Rigorously Conforming". The argument is that even "strictly conforming" POSIX applications do not require conformance to the Language standard; e.g. strictly conforming only needs to satisfy the requirements of the binding. "Rigorously Conforming" would combine strictly conforming to the POSIX standard with strictly conforming to the language standard. (The objective of the higher level class of conformance is to increase the level of portability of an application even more). The outcome of the discussion was that the UK. body should be requested to prepare an expert contribution describing the proposed new class of conformance and submit it to the development body for consideration. The US raised the point that it may not be appropriate to incorporate a condition in one standard (e.g. POSIX) that could be construed to impact the interpretation of another standard (e.g. ISO C); Action 9210-77: US: Consider the UK contribution on a proposed new Rigorously Conforming conformance class. WG15/N304 is the Danish response to NP's for security amendments to 9945-1 and 9945-2. Denmark's objection to the NPs was based on the absence of authentication from the proposed scope of work. It would seem that this should have been resolved at the JTC 1 level. A draft resolution dealing with the problem was prepared but it was not brought forward as the group drafting the resolution felt that it did not have sufficient information. Action 9210-78: Denmark: Provide more information related to WG15/N304 in time for consideration at the May 1993 WG15 meeting. WG15/N288 constitutes a test of the interpretations process pursuant to an action item on Denmark at the NZ meeting. The interpretations committee did not meet in April. It should meet in January and take action. WG15/N291 appears to be a liaison statement re LIS Spec Guideline. No action is required if WG15 does not advance an NP in this area. The question of whether .4 should be incorporated before .1LIS reaches the IS stage. There was a question of how useful the .1 LIS is. New Zealand found it easier to read than the C binding; however a "programmer" found the two book format difficult to work with. France had some concerns related to the structure and synchronisation of .4c. France wants .4 to progress to DIS level, but no further than that until .1 LIS is a DIS; advancing a thick binding to the CD level would be acceptable to France. At least one member body, the US, will vote against CD ballot of .4, preferring a second CD ballot. The general consensus was to go for a second CD ballot. It was proposed to hold a ballot resolution group meeting in conjunction with the IEEE meeting in New Orleans in January 1993. Some concerns over synchronisation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Kirk X/Open Company Limited Manager, Distributed Systems Management Apex Plaza, Forbury Road EMail: m.kirk@xopen.co.uk Reading, RG1 1AX, England Tel: +44 734 508311 ext 2258 Fax: +44 734 500110 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------