JTC1 SC22/WG15 N532 JTC1 SC22/WG15 Meeting Minutes Whistler, British Columbia, Canada October 26, 1994 Convenor: Jim Isaak United States Secretariat: Mary Ellen Ames United States Project Editor: Jon Spencer United States Chair: Patric Dempster Canada Vice Chair: Herman Weegenaar Netherlands Secretary: Arnie Powell Canada Host: Canada 1.0 Opening of Meeting The Chair, Patric Dempster, opened the meeting at 09:30 AM on October 26, 1994. 1.1 Canada welcomed the delegates to the WG15 Whistler meeting. 1.2 Introduction and Roll Call of Technical Experts Attendees: Canada David Blackwood Patric Dempster George Kriger Arnie Powell HoD Convenor Jim Isaak Denmark Keld Simonsen HoD Germany Ron Elliott HoD Japan Nobuo Saito HoD Netherlands Herman Weegenaar HoD United Kingdom Dave Cannon HoD Martin Kirk United States Jay Ashford John Hill Lowell Johnson Roger Martin HoD Barry Needham Gerald Powell Fritz Schulz 1.3 Selection of Drafting Committee Canada: David Blackwood Denmark: Keld Simonsen Germany: Ron Elliott United States: John Hill John Hill was appointed as chair of the drafting committee. John Hill requested that all resolutions be submitted to the drafting committee in electronic format. 1.4 Adoption of agenda Roger Martin pointed out that document N387r should be added to agenda item 5.9. 1.5 Approval of minutes The minutes [N499] from the Tokyo meeting were approved. 1.6 Action items and National Body reports. CA [N522], DK [N524], UK [N523], US [N515], Convenor [N508], RGCPA [N525], RIN [N527] 1. Barry Needham: Perform a positive address confirmation on all HoDs identified in SD-6 and update the PASC WG15 HoD mailing list appropriately. Closed. Not all member bodies responded. Barry Needham plans to repeat the process one more time before the end of 1994. 2. Convenor: Confirm that N423 has been circulated to SC22 for comment. Closed. 3. United States: 1) Consider the LIS and language-binding interface changes necessary to handle character-oriented features as a symbol and not storage patterns for a future revision of 9945-1. 2) Inform SC22/WG15 of any plans for supporting such features in future revisions of all parts of the 9945 standard(resolution 226, open action items 9210-77 9305-24, 9210- 10). Closed. 4. United States: Consider the United Kingdom Contributions on a proposed new rigorously conforming conformance class (open action items 9210-77, 9305-26, 9310-13). Closed. 5. United States: Supply a copy of the latest draft of 1003.2b to WG15 for review and comment(open action item 9305-31, 9310-15). Closed. 6. United States: Investigate making electronic copies of draft documents available to WG15. (open action item 9305-33, 9310-16) Open. Final approval not yet received from the IEEE. Info will be posted to the WG15 reflector when available. 7. United States: To provide a plan for incorporating into 9945-1 the additional rationale regarding the use of the terms "byte" and "character" as referenced in WG15 N349. (open action item 9305-40, 9310-18) Closed. 8. Project Editor: Prepare a preliminary disposition of comments for 9945-2 and circulate them in July to WG15 member bodies. (open action item 9305-41, 9310-19) Closed. 9. RGCPA: WG15 instructs RGCPA to review WG15 N461 and report back to WG15 at it's next meeting as to it's potential relationship to IEEE 1003.0. (open action item 9305-52, 9310-20) Closed. 10. Convenor: Request a response from RGCPA to WG15 action item 9405-10 before the October 94 meeting. Closed. 11. Convenor: Distribute the draft document of the real-time rapporteur group (RRG) of SC22/WG9 (Ada) "proposed standard API for hard real- time services" to SC22/WG15. Closed. 12. Project Editor: Notify the development body of collation weight requirements. (resolution 93-230, open action item 9305-60, 9310-23) Open. 13. Convenor: Request invitation from Denmark for spring 1996 WG15 meeting. Closed. 14. United States: Review the scope of WG15 POSIX security related items and position this work relative to the proposed program of work and terms of reference of SC21, SC18, and their working groups. United States member body will identify any areas of overlap and report their findings back to WG15.(open action item Paris- 01, 9310-25) Open. 15. Member Bodies: Member bodies to contribute national profiles that they have developed to RIN and WG20.(open action item Paris 07, 9310-26) Closed. 16. Canada: Provide a national profile to RIN and WG20 or provide a progress report on 9405-15 to WG15 by the Oct 94 meeting. Closed. 17. United Kingdom: Provide a national profile to RIN and WG20 or provide a progress report on 9405-15 to WG15 by the Oct 94 meeting. Open. 18. United States and New Zealand: Identify the basis for partitioning of functionality contained in language bindings.(open action item 9310-30) Closed. 19. Member bodies: Identify participants in the 9945-1 and 9945-2 interpretations process. Representatives should be identified to the Convenor via email as soon as possible.(open action item 9310-37) Closed. 20. Canada: Review draft 8 of 2003.2 and comment to RGCT for discussion at the Oct/94 meeting. Closed. 21. United Kingdom: Review draft 8 of 2003.2 and comment to RGCT at the Oct/94 meeting. Closed. 22. RIN: Develop a draft WG15 position on ISO 10646 impact on POSIX standards for consideration by WG15 no later than the October 1994 WG15 meeting (open action item 9310-46). Open. 23. Member bodies: Comment to WG15 draft position on ISO 10646 impact on POSIX standards (open action item 9310-47). Open. Dependent on RIN completing open action 9405-022. 24. United States: Report back on option annex status and development for relevant POSIX specifications (open action item 9310-48). Closed. 25. Project editor: Schedule an editing meeting to develop and forward disposition of comments for DIS 13210 to the SC22 Secretariat (open action item 9310-57). Open. 26. Convenor: Provide via email to WG15 the closure date for NP ballot of 2003.1 (open action item 9310-58). Closed. 27. Convenor: Determine the NP number for 2003.1 (open action item 9310-58). Closed. Number is 14515-1 for 2003.1 28. Project editor: Request ITTF to assign part number 0 to IEEE 1372 LIS for JTC1 numbering (open action item 9310-64). Open. 29. Member bodies: Review and comment on the project management format contained in N486. Closed. 30. Convenor: Distribute a report in N486 format and post an agenda item to review at the October 94 meeting. Closed. 31. Vice Chair: Reorganize SD-3 to split open and resolved issues. Open. (Closed/Completed during the meeting) 32. United States: Query PASC on WG15 issue list item 3 and report back to WG15 on the status of this issue. Closed. 33. Convenor: Forward resolution 94-x270 requesting CEN involvement with the work of WG15 to SC22. Closed. 34. Project editor: Provide a pictorial view of how standards are managed and combined for WG15 mailing prior to the Oct/94 meeting. Open. 35. United States: Report on the status of issues raised in N459 at the Oct/94 meeting. Closed. 36. Convenor: To forward to WG13 the WG15 liaison statement (N477). Closed. 37. RIN: Review the WG20 liaison issues in WG15 N466 and report back to the Oct/94 WG15 meeting with recommendations with respect to what the WG15 position should be and a proposed liaison statement if required. Closed. 38. Convenor: Issue a request for person to act as WG15 liaison to SC27(security), SCWG5(Fortran), EWOS (conformance testing and profiles). Closed. 39. Project editor: Request IEEE to make 9945-2 available to Japan in an electronic troff format to aid in their translation effort. Open. 40. Convenor: Send N490 to SC27 and 1003.6, reference WG15 resolution 94- 275. Closed. 41. Convenor: Forward N480 to SC21 as the WG15 contribution relating to JTC1 N2527, with reference to ISO Guide 25, reference WG15 resolution 94-273. Closed. 42. Member bodies: Determine the feasibility of working with CEN as documented in N444 for the registry of POSIX national profiles, locales, and charmaps for discussion at the Oct/94 meeting. Closed. 43. Convenor: Forward N387r to SC22 for consultative letter ballot as a new NP and request assignment to WG15. Closed. 44. Member bodies: Provide detailed proposals for the Oct/94 meeting on how the work on the Guide for National Profiles and Locales is to be structured and completed. Closed. 45. SGFS Liaison: Forward the SGFS liaison statement incorporating WG15 resolutions 94-269 and WG15 N470 to SGFS. Closed. 46. SGFS Liaison: Forward N496 to SGFS in response to their liaison statement. Closed. 47. RESEC Lead Rapporteur: To establish email list, reflector, and archive service for national bodies interested in the security work of WG15. Closed. 48. RGCPA Lead Rapporteur: To provide a report at the Oct/94 meeting on their progress towards completing their terms of reference. Closed. 49. Denmark: To provide a report of their problems with the IEEE defect response to WG15 via email by 30/06/94. Closed. 50. Convenor: To issue a call to all member bodies to participate in the synchronization ad hoc. Closed. 51. Jon Spencer: Provide a written report back to WG15 on the results of the ad hoc meeting on synchronization at the Oct/94 meeting. Open. 52. United States: Review N416 and N420 and forward them to PASC for consideration. Closed. 53. Convenor: Forward the batch services division to SC22. Closed. 54. United States: review SC22 N1566 and JTC1 N2890 and report back to WG15 if there are any issues. Closed. 55. United States: Forward N462 to PASC for possible inclusion in 1003.2b and report back to WG15 on actions taken; reference WG15 resolution 94-282. Closed. 56. United States: Forward N444 to PASC for posssible inclusion in 1003.2b and report back to WG15 on actions taken; reference WG15 resolution 94- 283. Closed. 57. Convenor: Confirm that the Netherlands is hosting the May 1995 meeting. Closed. 58. CEN working relation: Send N495 to CEN/TC304 and inform CEN of WG15's interest in their registry for possible future use in registering POSIX national profiles, locales and charmaps; reference resolution 94- 267. Closed. 59. Convenor: Request SC22 to invite up to two people from CEN/TC304 to participate in future WG15 meetings. Closed. 60. SGFS Liaison: Forward WG15 resolution 94-272 to SGFS. Closed. 61. Convenor: Forward WG15 resolution 94- 272 to the IEEE PASC 1003.0 working group. Closed. 62. SGFS Liaison: Forward N480 to SGFS as the WG15 contribution relating to JTC1 N2527, with reference to ISO Guide 25, reference WG15 resolution 94-273. Closed. 63. WG20 Liaison: Forward N494r to WG20, reference WG15 resolution 94-276. Closed. 64. Convenor: Notify SC22 WG14 and the SC22 Secretariat of the appointment of Mr. Keld Simonsen as WG15's liaison to WG14. Closed. 65. Convenor: Inquire if the Netherlands will be providing a person for the vice chair position at the Oct/94 WG15 meeting. Closed. 2.0 Status, Liaison, and Action Item Reports 2.1 Issues List No Activity 2.2 JTC1 Actions Affecting Group Convenor reported that the JTC1 ballot on 13210 passed. There is a current ballot out on Ada. 2.3 SC22 action, Convenor Report [N508] [N510] Ballot on Guidelines for National profiles and National Locales is to be revised by WG15. Convenor reviewed report in detail. 2.4 Report on IEEE PASC Standards Projects Reference SD11 2.5 Liaison and Working Relationship Reports: 2.5.1 Ada [RRG] [N475] [N459] No report 2.5.2 WG11/Cross Language No new activity to report 2.5.3 WG13/Modula 2 Bindings [N509] [N505] Netherlands (Herman Weegenaar) raised a quesion on the current Modula 2 binding which is a binding to a LIS. The Netherlands feels that this will create a significant problem for them. Discussion deferred to 5.2.1. 2.5.4 WG20/I18n [N520] WG20 liaison reported on activity. 2.5.5 WG21 C++ N. Saito reported that the CD registration ballot is in process. 2.5.6 SGFS [N503] [SGFS1180] 2.5.7 SC21/WG4 Martin Kirk reported that there is a document from WG4 that requires a response. 2.5.8 SC27 No report or activity. Roger Martin suggested removing the item from future WG15 agendas. 2.5.9 PCTE N. Saito reported that SC22 has formed a WG [WG22] on PCTE. 2.5.10 WG14/ C Language Keld Simonsen reported no activity. 2.5.11 EWOS Liaison [N514] 2.5.12 CEN TC304 Keld Simonsen reported on the CEN registry activity. CEN is currently balloting an ENV in support of this activity. [results expected by 1Q95] 2.6 Editor Report Deferred 2.7 Rapporteur Group Report/Status 2.7.1 Conformance Testing [N526] Gerry Powell reviewed status and activity. WG15 actions were developed. RGCT is also drafting a resolution for WG15 to review. It was agreed that in future meetings rapporteur groups should provide draft resolutions, draft action items or reports as appropriate. Not all communication to WG15 need be through resolutions. 2.7.2 Internationalization [N527] Keld Simonsen reported on RIN status and activity. WT1 was reassigned to N530 for further action. 2.7.3 Profile Coordination [N528] Arnie Powell reported on RGCPA status and activity. 2.8 Synchronization ad hoc Report Jim Isaak proposed two action items on member bodies relatiing to this activity. Proposed changes should be submitted to Jon Spencer by December 1, 1994. 3.0 Small Group Breakout There were no small group formed at this meeting. 4.0 Actions Arising from Reports 4.1 Action related to isssues. None 4.2 Responses to JTC1 or SC22 action None 4.2.1 Projects at 3 year window: LIS: TFA: PII: Directory Services: Projects other than Directory Services will show progress in 1995. Action proposed (US) to have the US report back on project status. (SD11). Further, US should propose/ draft a WG15 resolution in response to the requirement. 4.3 Proposals related to IEEE PASC activities and/or Priorities None 4.4 Liaison statements and actions related thereto None 4.4.1 Review of SC22 Cross report ballot summary from SC22 [N512, N513] None 4.5 Actions arising from rapporteur group reports 4.5.1 Review of Terms of Reference, Task Assignment and near term objectives 4.6 Defect Reports/Interpretations and Corregenda 4.7 Review of Project Management Summary Report [N486, N508] John Hill reviewed the format of the document. The intent is to establish a process that would allow WG15 to more easily track the progress of WG15 work. It was agreed that the report was of value to WG15 member bodies. It was further agreed that the report should be available to WG15 member bodies two months prior to each WG15 meeting. 4.8 Synchronization Plan Revision [N476][N352r2][N460][N381] Keld Simonsen raised concerns relative to the current process. Current procedures allow the project editor to make changes to standards in the disposition of comments process as well as in the defect resolution process. It was decided that one hour of plenary time would be allocated to further discussion. One of Keld's concerns is that some items that are considered editorial changes in ISO process are considered to be normative changes in the IEEE process. Keld Simonsen agreed to set up an email mailing list (SC22WG15SYNC@DKUUG.DK) in order to facilitate discussion on synchronization. A number of WG15 actions were generated from the discussion. 4.9 Charmap Issues 4.9.1 CHARID (report on [N462]) [N515] Canada requested further clarification of the US response to action item 9405-55. The US will provide early visibility of the proposed addition to 1003.2b to WG15. 4.9.2 Charsymbmap (Report on [N444]) [N515] Keld Simonsen reviewed concerns relative to the rejection of N444 (action item 9405-56). The US agreed that this proposal could be revisited. Keld Simonsen agreed that the actions discussed in 4.9.1 would help to resolve the concerns. 5.0 Project Activities - registration, balloting, content [WG15 SD11] 5.1 9945-0 LIS System Interface 22.21.01.01 System Interface LIS (1372) Herman Weganaar questioned whether ISO standards could make reference to TRs. Jim Isaak reported that JTC1 discussions on this were currently underway. 5.2 9945-2 Shell and Utilities 5.2.1 22.21.02.01 Shell and utilities base 5.2.2 22.21.02.02 User Portability Extensions 5.2.3 22.41 Additional Utilities [N416] Keld Simonsen indicated that Denmark isn't satisfied with the response reflected in N416. 5.2.4 22.43 Security Amendment 5.2.5 22.21.03.02 Batch Services 5.3 Administered Ststems 5.3.1 22.21.03.01 System Administration 5.3.2 22.21.03.04 Software Administration [N506] Jim Isaak noted that comments from member bodies were requested. 5.3.3 22.21.03.05 User Administration [N507] 5.3.4 22.21.03.03 Print Administration 5.3.5 22.21.03.02 Batch Services 5.4 9945-1 C Language Binding 5.4.1 22.21.04.01 C Language binding 5.4.2 22.39 Extensions to base 5.4.3 22.21.01.02 Real time extensions .01 5.4.4 22.21.01.02 Real time Extensions .02 5.4.5 22.40 Extensions to Real Time 5.4.6 22.42 Security Ammendment 5.4.7 01.03.01 Transparent File Access 5.4.8 01.03.03 Protocol Independent Interface 5.4.9 01.03.04 Directory Services 5.5 14519 Ada Language Bindings 22.21.04.02 Ada Language binding 5.6 Fortran Language Binding 22.21.04.03 Fortran Language binding 5.7 14252 Guide to POSIX OSE [N502] [N519] [WT3] 22.38 TR Guide to POSIX OSE Discussion was held relative to the progression of PDTR. RGCPA reviewed the disposition of comments and forwarded a resolution to recommending progression to DTR. 5.8 Test Methods 5.8.1 22.37 DIS 13210 Test Methods [N517] [N518] Roger Martin reviewed the status and disposition of comments. Recommendation the disposition of comments be accepted/approved. Resolution has been drafted. 5.8.2 14515 Test Methods for 9945-1:1990 [2003.1] Roger Martin reported that 2003.1 has been approved for forwarding to SC22 for CD registration and ballot. 5.8.3 14515 Test Methods for 9945-2 [2003.2] Jim Isaak reported that the division of work has been approved. Roger Martin reported that 2003.2 is undergoing ballot resolution at the IEEE. 5.9 Guide for National Profiles and Locales [N461] [N470] [N503] [N525] [N529] [N387r] [N470] [N521] [N527] [WT2] WT2 (Proposal from RIN) was discussd and generally agreed to as a replacement for N387r. Resolution discussion followed and a revised resolution was drafted. Revised NP (N387r2) will be submitted to SC22 as a consultative letter ballot. 6.0 New Busineess 6.1 UK Paper on Application Conformance [N511] Dave Cannon reviewed paper on UK issues/concerns. One of the solutions suggested was a form of branding. Member bodies were actioned for comment. 6.2 Review of Project Management Report Example [N508] Covered earlier in the meeting. Convenor will produce a pilot document. 6.3 Editorial Meetings for Disposition of Comments [N516] Ron Elliott (Germany) expressed concerns with current practice. (2 weeks not sufficient notice) Resolution was drafted to address Germany's concerns. 6.4 EWOS Relationship [N514] It was agreed that establishing liaison with EWOS is in the best interests of WG15. Convenor was actioned to pursue this liaison. 6.5 RIN EMAIL Request Keld Simonsen discussed RIN resolution. 6.6 CEN Registry [N444] Keld Simonsen initiated discussion of the document/ proposal. It was established that CEN (TC304) has a working relationship to WG15. WG15 does not have a liaison to TC304. It was not posssible to determine what if any documentation exists in support of the TC304/WG15 working relationship. Convenor was actioned to determine JTC 1 position on proposed CEN registry. It was decided that discussion on the CEN (N444) management/ administrative issues should be discussed at the next meeting of WG15. This would allow the Convenor to obtain the relevent documentation. Member bodies were actioned to do a technical review of N444. N515 (US review) pertains to this. 7.0 Review/approval 7.1 Task/Assignments for Rapporteur Groups No new work asssigned 7.2 Resolutions John Hill reviewed (for WG15 approval) the resolutions developed in the Whistler, WG15 meeting. Voting on Resolutions: 94-285 6-0-1[UK] 94-286 7-0-0 94-287 7-0-0 94-288 7-0-0 94-289 7-0-0 94-290 7-0-0 94-291 7-0-0 94-292 7-0-0 94-293 7-0-0 94-294 6-0-1[DK] 94-295 7-0-0 94-296 7-0-0 7.3 Action Items The action items were reviewed and approved. 7.4 Issues List 8.0 Closing Process 8.1 Future Meeting Considerations - Request for Invitations Jim Isaak led a discussion on a recommended change to meeting schedules. The recommendation is to hold WG15 Plenary meetings ahead of Rapporteur Group Meetings. Decision was to hold the WG15 meeting at the beginning of the week and the rapporteur group meetings at the end of the week. Tentative Schedule May 8-12, 1995 Twente, Netherlands Fall 95 Orlando, Florida Spring 96 Denmark Fall 96 Europe Spring 97 Australia/Singapore Fall 97 Canada 8.2 Document Number Assignment Completed 8.3 Selection of Vice Chair, Secretary for next meeting Barry Needham will be Vice Chair 8.4 Agenda for Next Meeting Completed 8.5 Thanks to host 9.0 Adjournment